Retrospect
Retrospect
The Prophecy of the Popes | Retrospect Ep.181
In this week’s episode we discussed the mysterious Prophecy of the Popes, a centuries-old prediction attributed to St. Malachy. We'll explore the origins of the prophecy, its eerie accuracy, and the debate surrounding its authenticity. We try to unravel the intriguing connection between this ancient prediction and the papacy, and whether it holds any relevance in today's world.
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Ian
Welcome to the retrospect podcast, a show where people come together from different walks of life, and it's because the topic from their generations perspective. My name is Ian, and as always, I'm joined by Stoney,
Stoney
hello
Ian
and Jason.
Jason
Hello, everyone.
Ian
How's it going?
Stoney
It's going good.
Jason
Well, we had a little bit of bumpy weather this morning. Yeah.
Ian
I mean, seemingly out of nowhere, is what it felt like. Well,
Jason
they mentioned that it was gonna be, you know, springtime. So it's, it's, it's severe weather. So right now, I mean, you just have the hot and cold air that are starting to battle each other. And when that happens, the weather starts popping. And it, it popped a bit this morning, I don't think it popped too bad at my house. I mean, it lot of lightning, yeah,
Ian
lightning around the studio area. It I was over here, and I, I was listening to some music, and, you know, was cleaning up and doing some stuff. And I don't know where I was like, is it raining? And it was, it was pouring down, raining. I was like, oh, man, okay, there was a tree down. Yeah,
Jason
yeah. I saw that they look like they moved it off so, but yeah, so there was some pretty high winds. I saw a report in a town called Jennings, okay, I think, recorded a straight line wind of 90 miles an hour. Wow. Are you serious? Yeah, I saw a report at the Baton Rouge metropolitan airport. They recorded a gust of 78 Wow, that's hurricane force wind, yeah, today, today, getting this line of storms that rolled through. So, I mean, it was, I mean, it got dark because I know this morning, while I was drinking coffee, it got pitch black outside. It was, like, it was pretty bad. Like, well, it could be good. Could be kind of one of those things where it just, you know, gets dark and wind a little bit, and then it just kind of passes. Or it could be pretty bad, range, some it what I really wanted to do, and I couldn't do it. I want to put out my Scott's bonus s last night, and that way I knew it was going to be raining and then just wet the ground and done with it. But that happened, ended up having dinner at my parents house, and we played a little Mexican train. Okay, which is fun. So we always have a good time with with Domino's. That's
Ian
fun, Mexico. So
Stoney
what is the bonus? S, is that like the weed and feed? Yeah, Scott's bonus
Jason
s, it's, it's basically weed and feed for your for your lawn, yeah, because
Stoney
we did the weed and feed, it was a Scots. I don't know that it was the bonus. I'll have to look at it, Scott. And so we did that the other day, but they say do it in the morning while they're still do on the ground right, and then make sure it's not going to rain for 24 to 48 hours. So we made that window. So I'm hoping that it'll kill because them clovers are going crazy. Yeah,
Jason
so I want to, I need to spread it, I think for for our area, about this time is when you need to be putting it out. I haven't done it lately, in the last few years, but, you know, there for a while they had that big lawsuit against them. I bought a bag of it and put it out. Killed all my grass. Oh, no, yeah, it was a mislabeled from the factory. And yeah, killed
Stoney
everything. Yeah,
Jason
lawn up, and a lot of people lawn and so, yeah, we got me, got a settlement for that.
Stoney
Did you get your check? I did, okay. Oh, wow,
Jason
yeah. Got a check from Scottsboro, filed a claim, and, you know, send a check for the damage to the lawn. So that's been now several years back, if I recall, I don't It's been a while, but, well, I guess they fixed it so it's everybody seems to be using it's been no problem. So I was going to put it out, because my lawn needs it.
Stoney
We definitely needed it, though, those clovers and the weeds. Right now, the grass is dead. Every once a while you get a little
Jason
bit of shooting. So it's coming, it's but it said, do it
Stoney
right before the grass really starts to take off. And so I think we hit it, but the clovers are growing, yeah. And so I'm just hoping it just kills those and the grass comes back. I'm gonna have to find somebody to was it called thatch in the lawn? Yeah, I had a Thatcher, but I sold it when I got rid of my riding lawnmower, because the blue the engine in it or something, yeah. Somebody says, ooh, I need a Thatcher. And I should have kept it, because I could have let the yard guy just run around with it, but pull all that up and you mulch it down and it, it feeds, you know, the grass and stuff, but aerates it too. So, but All right,
Jason
yeah, but so, yeah, so it was a little interesting morning, but looks like the sun's out, so we everything's all good.
Stoney
Did y'all see over the weekend that. Um, NBC News found that only 7% of Americans have a very positive view of Democrats right now, I think that's kind of interesting, but in a interesting twist, 7% of Americans also believe that chocolate milk comes from Brown cows. And no, I'm not really joking. I really kind of wish I was but I'm Bill, I'm willing to bet that that's the same 7%
Jason
Well, none of that surprises me anytime they anytime they go out there and just interview people on basic, basic civics, the level of ignorance of this society, of where we're at right now.
Ian
I never thought that I was super good at like geography, like knowing certain countries, like there's something like smaller countries, especially over like in the Europe area, that I don't quite know exactly where they are, but I think of a pretty good knowledge of it. I've seen some videos online to some people like, not knowing what certain states are like, very big countries, and are just like, like, just pointing at someone the map that is like, so obscure and weird. And I'm like, maybe I am smarter than I think I am.
Jason
Well, I just to just, there's a lot of ignorance, and it doesn't surprise me with and I think that's now reflected in our politics, there is a lot of really don't know how finance works and inflation and where all that comes from, and money and just how things are funded and the level of funding. And one group says, Oh, you're cutting. Another group says, No, we're, we're maintaining the same levels we did before. But, you know, it's just, you know, just this whole, this whole mess that we're in right now with. It's just sad. Well, people
Stoney
just kind of need to keep their mouth shut. You know, AOC called Elon Musk, unqualified. That's almost like a bartender calling a rocket scientist stupid. Yeah, wait a minute, yeah, exactly, exactly. And
Jason
it's just to me, you know, have a if you're gonna disagree with something, at least have some intelligent response to what they're doing. No one should be against finding waste and fraud and in our where our tax dollars are spent. Well, there have they. Have these multitudes against that. Close my mind that some people are
Stoney
over the last weekend of Obama saying, oh, there's all this waste, Bill Clinton came in and fired 370,000 federal workers, and he came into office for waste. But now what they did was that was the end around, because then they hired all these private people to do the same job to where they could hide. But it's still, everybody says there's waste, waste, waste. This is the first time we're actually really doing something about
Jason
it. That's the whole deal is no one really wants to it's waste until it's my pot of money. Then it's not
Stoney
then it's not waste. So,
Jason
but yeah, we'll see. You know, it's in the last two months have been two months. Three months has been very active.
Stoney
They're almost up to what two, $2 trillion that they found right now. It's like a trillion dollars a month. They're finding the
Jason
sad part about it is, is it, for all intents and purposes, it's, it's borrowed money. It's borrowed stolen money. You know? It's borrowed money because basically every expense right now is being unwritten because we're borrowing everything. So that means someone's buying our debt. Yeah? So I yeah, I'm not gonna, you know it's, there's arguments back and forth, and you know you're, you know, some say Elon Musk, he's not qualified to do what he's doing. And you could simply say, well, well, who was supposed to be doing this? Well, then they'll come back and say, well, the inspector generals that that Trump fired and I said, Well, did they find any waste abuse while they were they were there, and I guess it would be zero. So, you know, they argue, maybe saying, Okay, well, then if you're not going to do it, then why are you here? And we're just going to get somebody else to do it. And unfortunately, no one really wants to uncover that. It's sort of like I'd rather keep it hidden. We all know what's going on. I just as long as I get mine well, then I don't care. And unfortunately, it's just gonna unless the whole system collapses and. And then we're all screwed. But, you know, nobody cares about that, because we always feel like there's always, it's always going to be there. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. We don't know.
Stoney
Romans thought it was too well. I mean, just so did Genghis Khan's empire.
Jason
Everybody, everybody thinks is, is everything is permanent, and it's just not. And, you know, the things can be fixed, but you got to be willing. It's political will to fix things, and to really fix things. And unless you're willing to do that, I mean, it's, it's hard to get people, you know, look at the end of the day, and it applies to all of us. We always seek the easiest route. We do. And human beings are the same when it comes to that, if I have an out, and this is easier, I'm gonna take that route, right? It kind of goes against the old was it? I mean, I need to kind of bring in religion. But I find it funny that, you know, it's, it's easier for the rich man to enter the eye of a needle than for the the rich man to enter, to enter the kingdom of God, or something along those lines. I find that there's an analogy there anything worthwhile is hard. It just is. It's easy to kind of go the easy way, and so I agree with that. Yeah, we are. We gotta, we gotta fix this. Because, I mean, if we don't, it's we're screwed. I mean, we just are, whether must does it, or whoever else does it, but nobody else has taken the time, oh yeah, to do it so, but that's not why we're here, yeah. What are we here about? Yeah. And I know our listeners are probably saying, What are y'all gonna
Stoney
so I kind of belong in. Sorry. We apologize.
Jason
Sometimes we get off on a tangent, but they saw the title and no but the thing about this is why we even brought this up was during the time when and just it looks like Pope Francis is look like getting better. He was in the hospital with double pneumonia. And so guess what starts kind of playing on, on some feeds and people start talking about was the prophecy of st malachi, and what exactly that is? I
Stoney
but that also came up in a past episode when we were talking about some prophecies and things like that. I think it was me that brought up the prophecy of the Pope's right
Jason
and so, but it really started playing because everybody really looked like I'd be answered. I didn't think Pope Francis will make it technically,
Stoney
according to this prophecy, he's supposed to be the last he's supposed
Jason
to be the last pope. So I don't with him now getting better, at least that's what it looks like for now. Yes, there. There is this prophecy of the popes. And we thought it would be interesting to kind of broach this subject and talk about it a little bit. And there are plenty of resources out there to really kind of go in depth, because
Stoney
there's a lot of stuff, right? We won't
Jason
go into the level of, you know, the level of you know, of depth that this topic can you where you can go get some stuff, where people really talk about it, really in depth. And we're going to do our best to kind of give an overview of what this is all about, just kind of our own perspectives on on this stuff, and whether there's any legitimacy to this, this whole prophecy, and what it's all about. And probably most people never even heard of it, you know,
Ian
I know. I haven't, yeah, oh, really, okay. I mean, I'm not really into the into that sphere, so I don't really know anything about Popes. Or, you know, for the longest time, I had no idea who the current pope was, until who's the current one right now, France, Francis, until that whole transition happened, where Francis, like, became Pope
Jason
after after Pope Benedict, right stepped down. I,
Ian
like, I wasn't in that that world, so I didn't really know that whole
Stoney
conclave thing is interesting in itself. How they bring in a new pope is really interesting. Well,
Jason
you know that how? I mean, you have to go back in time. I mean, I've had these discussions with people, you know, all the time, with my my interest in church. History in of course, I teach, you know, R CIA at my church, so I teach the defense of the faith, but I'm very much have a extensive reading list of church history and where we you know, where all this comes from and and how it all evolved over time. But, you know, I tell people all the time, cardinals were only created to elect a pope, that's it. That's their whole purpose. And believe it or not, you don't have to be a priest to be a Cardinal. You can be a lay person, really? I remember, right? Yes, that's, it's a now, most cardinals were our bishops. I think for the most part, they're bishops. I believe the way it works is, is there's like a couple Cardinals per continent. Wow, okay, yeah, they and generally they are over, over large, large metropolitan areas of where they come from. But I mean, prior to the the institution of cardinals, I mean the Popes generally were, you know, a lot of times were controlled by kings and emperors, yeah, had a had a huge say. And who would get, you know, put there, especially during the crisis of the ninth century. You know, it was a mess of especially with the once the Western Roman Empire as a political entity really kind of fragmented, and you had a bunch of barbarian kingdoms being set up, it things got a little, you know, kind of messy, I guess you kind of equated to if The United States would be evaded and eventually broken up, and different regions were ruled by certain people. And yeah, how we kind of elect a president, so to speak, how that would be altered, how that would work, same thing kind of happened to a degree, and I'm glossing over a lot of details with that. But, yeah, so. But you know who is, who is Saint Maliki? I think, I think people need to know who this person is. And I do have some background information on this person. He was a, as I said, I introduced him as st Maliki. He is a 12th century Saint who was in Ireland. And he is a 1094 he was 1094 94 Yep, long time ago, right? So, he was born in 1094 and he died in 1148, and he actually died in with had his friend's best bedside of Saint Bernard de Clairvaux, which was his best friend. And he got summoned to Rome by Pope Innocent the second. And in his time in Rome, supposedly he had visions. Now, if you look at St Malachy right now, his feast day, he is associated with. One of his attributes is prophecy. Funny that. So that's not just kind of some far off thing. He's actually known for that
Stoney
well, he performed miracles and having visions, which the Prophecy of the Popes was one of those visions where he it was the form of 112 you know, mottos, each representing a pope,
Jason
right? It was 111 Latin phrases. And supposedly, if you look at how his if you look at the work that was done, it was like, certain little like, like Stoney mentioned, there certain little phrases associated with each Pope. I've actually written a few of them
Stoney
down. I thought that was dry, because some of them are accurate, and some of them are, some some
Jason
are not. And it's, it's, it's pretty interesting, but it's interesting that at the at the end, so you have 111 and then there's a break, okay, right? And then there is the last pope, supposedly was a guy by the name of Peter the Roman. And that's supposedly the last one. If you go to to the Vatican today, and you look at where they have the pictures of the Pope, you'll see there's one last frame, which is interesting. I find that interesting now, whether that was just simply, they just ran out of room, and you know, you've been. Really, your space runs out, and that's what you or there was some symbolism there about would that be the last one? But I found it interesting that in the last last stanza, that it's a very interesting reading, but I've wrote it down. Just want to read it to everybody. It says, in the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church, there will sit Peter, the Roman which will feed the sheep in many tribulations. And when these things are finished, the city of the seven hills, ie Rome, will be destroyed and the dreadful judge will judge his people. And it ends, the end, Oh, wow. So it's, it's interesting that some people attribute the current pope as Peter the Roman and now they make some they make some connections, because when Francis became Pope, he, of course, his name is not Francis, and we all know how popes adopt, generally, a name of a past Pope or some sort of Saint, a lot like
Ian
monarchy, to do the same thing exactly when you become when you become christened, I think, or what is it called, whenever you the ceremony that you become like you get coronation. Upon your coronation day, you get to choose your name that you'll be known by. And you can choose like you know, one from history, that you can adopt. But
Jason
suppose that, from what I was reading with, you know, some people say when he picked Francis of Assisi, and I don't know if y'all know of Francis of Assisi, but Francis was a was a saint. He's attributed to being kind of the the founder of the Franciscans. If anybody don't know who the Franciscans are? The Franciscans or a religious order within the Catholic Church, we call them the nature lovers. They, they, they're the ones that are kind of, you know, associated with, with animals and, you know, taking care of nature. So because Francis was, was known as, supposedly, he preached to the animals. And it's his stories of many birds and animals that would come listen to him as he would preach, because nobody want to listen to him. I will preach to the animals. And they came and listened to him. So he's known as, as the matter of fact, in today's practice, many people on the Feast of Saint Francis will bring their pets, wow, and there will be a blessing of that so, but that's who he takes his name from. You know, Francis was a Jesuit, which was different from most Popes. Generally, Jesuits were not Popes. He's the first, he's the first, right? So
Stoney
now the Jesuits are generally tied to the Black Pope. They're supposedly three popes, the white Pope, the Black Pope and the gray Pope. And the Jesuits kind of have always been the Black Pope, the white pope is the sitting Pope, and the gray pope is supposedly the secretive, more day to day kind of stuff in the in the thing. But now they it supposedly has combined the white and the black Pope, because he's the first Jesuit Pope,
Jason
right into Jesuits generally. And I actually, personally, you know, I've talked about it on this podcast. I attend a Jesuit retreat every year, and it's run by the Jesuits. The Jesuits were formed by Ignatius of Loyola in the about the time of the Protestant Reformation, it was the Society of Jesus. It was the church's response to what was going on in Europe at that time, with the church fracturing. And it was a way of re evangelizing the people and trying to, you know, most people associated with the Counter Reformation. But that's where the Jesuits come from. They do swear allegiance to a supreme Jesuit. Matter of fact, when Francis became Pope, he went to the Jesuit superior. And basically, you know, because him being pope, he would have to, you know, be square allegiance, or, I forget the actual terminology, but Francis told him, he goes, No, you don't have to do that. So there's some things happen with with that which, which are interesting. Of Francis is different in many ways than other Popes. Francis has refused a lot of titles. Matter of fact, Francis it indicated that he was the Conclave was to elect the Bishop of Rome, not Pope. He's the first one to really say this. Him being a Jesuit a little different, and he doesn't stay in the Papal Palace. He lives in an apartment. He kind of forsake some of the normal things that previous popes did. So when you know a pope, when elected, it's you know, generally traveled as the universal head of the church, Francis has never considered himself in that way and and which is kind of feed some of this stuff that's going on with this prophecy and what people are seeing. But So Francis took, takes takes the name of Francis of Assisi, where people are connecting Peter, the Roman to Francis, is that Francis, Francis of Assisi, real middle name was Peter, and his parents were both Romans, so They're drawing this conclusion that he's Peter, the Roman. Now Francis, his parents were actually Italians, and in migrated to tar to Argentina, yeah, and that's but his parents are actually from Italy. Roman,
Stoney
you'll be Roman. That would be Roman. Francis
Jason
actually utilizes Italian for a lot of things, versus Latin, which is, Latin is the language of the church. Italian is the language of the Romans. So it's, you know, some people are making the connection. Well, you know, is Francis, the last pope. And then, you know, you know, we there's a lot of controversy surrounding Pope Francis and some of his things that he is supposedly attributed to saying. And you know, some people hate him. Some people think he's the Antichrist. Some people think he's this, or he's that, or whatever the case. Well, he's
Stoney
taking a pretty strong, strong stance on immigration and things like that, even to the point where it's possibly believed that the last pope was helped be to be removed by the CIA, to bring this guy
Jason
in. Well, that that's true. I mean, it's to cause if
Stoney
he's not the one to lead the church through the tribulations, is he the one bringing the tribulations in,
Jason
yeah. I mean, that's I was trying to do some reading on who are the some of the Cardinals that that might succeed Pope Francis. And I mean, if, if, if the pot, if the, if the prophecy is, is correct. I mean, I guess if, if someone is, by the name of Peter, gets appointed, or
Stoney
takes the name of Peter, name of Peter, which they could
Jason
so, yeah, I mean, I don't know, but I mean, kind of getting back to, you know, the what the actual prophecy of the popes, and where this document came from, as I said, it was attributed to Same alachi A long time ago, in the 12th century. So we're right now. You're in the midst of, we're just for time frame purposes. You're now in the beginning of the crusade era. Basically fall into surprise, okay, I see. So just give you an idea what's what's going on worldwide. You know, the church is, at this point is, is, you know, they're tired of hearing about what Muslims are doing to Christian pilgrims, that you know, they do all that so. But a, you know, he ends up Pat as I said, he passed away. The document associated with him. Was supposedly put into the Vatican Secret archive. He presented
Stoney
it to Pope in assist the second and it disappeared for 400 years, right?
Jason
It went into the it went into the Vatican archives, and was eventually found by a Vatican librarian. It was a monk that found it, and I have a date here, if I can remember, it was in 1556 Wow. So, okay, so you know time frame here. What's going on 1556 this is now the Protestant Reformation is really starting to gain steam. You have stuff going on with with Henry the eighth. You've got Martin Luther, you've got all these things going on
Stoney
so, but it raised another one in 1590 there was a conclave where it was brought back out in a massive way, and they thought that it was going to, you know, be used to influence the election in 1590 right?
Jason
Yeah. It. Was actually found in, as I said, in 1556 It was published 39 years later in a book called League of V tie, if I'm pronouncing via Arnold, Arnold the V on
Stoney
the tree of life. Okay, that's what it means.
Jason
It's a tree. It's a chapter in this book. And so alpha, I think it was, it was Arnold de villa on and and he was helped by Alfonso D eclar, I believe is a name in this. What he was, he was a expert in medieval manuscript. So, you know, they're looking at this thing. Is this legit? Is it real? He eventually says, Yes, this is real. This goes back to the 12th century. And so they do it. So I mean that that's kind of where we are with with the prophecy so it gets published, there's bit of a controversy in 1595
Stoney
we'll hit another publication in 15
Jason
well, they're saying, because of, there was a bit of a bit of a controversy. Basically, the predictions that that predate, that they don't really touch. It's just prophecies starting for, I believe, with Celestine. Believe silicon, fourth, I think, is a second. The second was a silver team. It's Celestine. I forget which I think it was. The second was the second, so, but, yeah, it basically, as I said, it lists a very a lot of these popes they have. There's a phrase next to each name. And surprisingly, it kind of makes sense. It's like, okay, I see, I can see some, some things here parallels, yeah, right, that, are that, are that are working so, you know, it leads us, if it's real or not, it leads us to where we're at now, and if, if Francis is the last pope, and supposedly the city of this of the seven hills is going To be destroyed,
Stoney
which is wrong, which is wrong?
Jason
What? What? What? Okay. What does that mean? What sort of tribulation are we talking about here? You know, there's a lot of people right now in the world think that we're on a collision course with with World War Three. You've got now they say the city will be destroyed by with fire,
Stoney
which could be nuclear. It could
Jason
be nuclear. It could be I've read some things that there are some super volcanoes located in that area that if that would a lot that would erupt, that would basically, for all intents and purposes, destroy the city of Rome. Matter of fact, I saw one then. Of course, you don't know it's true or not, but reading something that the National Security Administration believes that they are active volcanos in Italy right now that are very close to eruption, really, yes. So whether that's true or not, who knows? Yeah. But the question is, is, then you know, what is judgment and what does that mean? Right? So that's really the prophecy. In a nutshell, it's, you know, as I said, this started being talked about, really, it started being talked about when Francis became Pope.
Stoney
Well, that happens every time there's a new pope. This prophecy kind of comes out because it it intrigues people to know how close it is to the prophecy. Now they really want to know. I think that's in, you know, oh yeah, pops up. Oh, you know, how close is this one. I
Jason
just for example. I mean, I said, I wrote down a few of these little, these little sentences that I thought were interesting in. In one of his verses, he described Pope, innocent the 10th, and the phrase next to his name was joyfulness of the cross. He was elected Pope on the feast day of the exaltation of the cross after a long, very difficult conclave. So are you right? It's something there some parallels. Yeah, some parallels. There another one, Pope Pius, the six and I said, Well, step back. Pope Innocent. The 10th was from 1644, to 1655, Pope Pius the seventh was 1775, 1799, I should say Pope Pius the six. His phrase was apostolic wanderer. And what's notable with him is he traveled to Germany to confer with Emperor Joseph the second. The last two years of his reign was very difficult, because he had to flee Rome due to revolutionaries, and he took a very difficult path over the Alps and eventually landed in France, where he eventually died there. So he wandered a lot, yeah, so
Stoney
we've had a couple close ones. What is it Pope? And these numbers always get me. Was it x, x3, 111, that would be 23 right? Yeah, from 58 to 63 pastor and mariner. Well, he, he was a he came from Venice. He came from Venice, which is a maritime city, yeah. You know, another one that I liked was Pope John one and 78 from the half moon. How long did he serve? 33 days. And they're saying it was like just that little moon phase, right? And the other one that kind of caught my eye, which I really liked, from the labor of the sun. And this is Pope John Paul the second from 78 to 2005 was born during a solar eclipse that had a global reaching papacy. Yeah, wow. I mean, that's yeah, specific, you know, for so long. And then the other one, Pope Benedict, the 16th, I guess, from 2005 to 13 the glory of the olive and olive tiens are a branch of the Benedict of order. His papal name also refers to the Benedict of nurse area. How you say that nurse area? Which spell it for me? N, u, r, s, I, a Yeah, no, see, so how would they know? Yeah? How would they know? That's pretty specific, if you think about it, yeah.
Jason
I got one here, Pope Pius the seventh, who reigned from 1800 to 1823 his phrase was greedy Eagle. Uh
Stoney
oh, that doesn't sound good. Well,
Jason
guess, guess what, who was, who was in power and during that time, yep, Napoleon. Napoleon, he got, he battled with Napoleon, whose symbol was an eagle, yeah, very contentious relationship. He wanted to conquer the world. He ex communicated Napoleon, and then he was kidnapped by some of his officers, and then eventually he got released. And basically Napoleon demanded to have some sort of agreement with him that basically benefited Napoleon. So as I said, some of these things, or it's, interesting to see. And you know, how would Malachi would know that? Now, I find it interesting that there are some who doubt Malachi wrote this another name associated with these prophecies, because we all know that it was discovered in the Vatican archives in the 1500s Well, who else was living in that time in the 1500s nice was misunders. So there are actually some that believe that actually, Nostradamus wrote this because he would have been very interested Yes, in in the future of the papacy. And, you know, I have to understand at that time, you know, people were looking for, there was an antichrist around every, every corner, yes. So, I mean, you people always, you know, is this or that, or you know, is that the Antichrist, that the antichrist? That's the end. And so there was a there was an obsession, because, I mean, the established order of society was getting up ended during this time, relationships between church and state, how all that work, those dynamics. So yeah, I did was listening to a video on this, and they did because of some errors, and it looked like some errors were re copied, which indicate that somebody just copied this stuff. And some would say, Well, I don't remember the exact connection. I don't have that really articulated out of how Nostradamus, his name, got associated with this. But, you know, he was very much involved. And you know, as we've talked. Talked about him before with his astronomical predictions and how all that worked. So there are some that believe that actually, you know, they used Malachi name because Malachi was known, you know, would be with prophecy, as I mentioned earlier, his feast day and and that's how he's known. Matter of fact, Ian, can you find out when exactly is Malachi feast day? I'm curious, guys, I didn't write that down.
Ian
Let's see it is, I'm seeing his, his, his death date, but I'm not, Oh, let's see, um, the feast, uh, feast day of Saint Malachy is celebrated on November 3. November 3, okay, the day was chosen to avoid clashing with All Souls Day, yeah, which celebrate is celebrated on the second of November, yep,
Jason
so, so, yeah. So, if, like, when I go to, you know, I go to a daily Mass, because you don't really see about this on Sundays. But if I go to a daily master in the week and it falls on the day of a particular saint, they will have a little deal about him. And so it's, it's. So if I go to church on November 3, then in the Missal, it will be, yeah, same Maliki. So that's who we remember as a great he was a bishop. And if you have to remember now, when Sam Malachy was had become a bishop, Ireland was still not really completely Christianized. At that time, there were a lot of Irish people still kind of hanging on to their paganistic, yeah, past. I mean, it's especially the druids and that sort of kind of backdrop of there. So, you know, that was a time in Ireland that was, it was not quite Christianized yet. So he
Ian
died on November 2, 1148, and that was why they chose the third. Because of it clashed with I was confused as to why they would not.
Jason
Yeah, most you'll see is their death date is more important than their birth date, yeah, because that is when they are enter the kingdom of God, right, right? So, so you always, generally will see their death date and not their birthday, right? Well,
Ian
yeah, so that's what that was, the conflation of the two numbers I was getting confused by. He died on November 2 of 1148, but they made his feast day on the third clash,
Jason
right, yeah, because you can't with All Souls Day,
Ian
yeah. So interesting. So, yeah,
Jason
it's a I guess the question is, is, what do you think of these prophecies? Do you feel like they're legit? Do you feel like Francis might be the last pope? Do you feel like, I mean, they say this is gonna be struggling. If you're saying the city is gonna be destroyed, then something's gotta happen. I found it interesting. I was kind of looking at some unrelated stuff, but, you know, we've all been talking about the the asteroid Apophis. Oh, yeah, yeah. And you know, supposedly in 2029 it's going to be within the 30,000 miles of Earth, which is like, really close to see it with your naked eye. Is how close it will be. And I was tracking the path of a purpose. And it looks like it might be flying around in that area. In 2029 it also has a potential in 2036 of swinging by. And I'm looking at some of the track, and, you know, I'm thinking, you know, could that be? You know, he's gotten
Stoney
better. So 2029, may not be that far off for him,
Ian
four years, which is four years not long.
Jason
No, it's not so,
Ian
yeah, and unless you, unless you step down, is Pope just like a lifelong position kind of thing?
Jason
Well, Bennett, yeah. I mean, Pope is, like, anytime, like Bishop. I mean, yeah, Bishop is your once you get a bishop, your bishop for life. I mean, it's, it was very unusual when Benedict resigned, that had not been, it's not been done in, in probably four to 500 you. Years, oh, wow, that a a pope actually vacated his office. You've heard price, probably, stories of why Benedict. You know, when Benedict was was elected, you know, Benedict was the, was the chief theologian would call the called the I forget the actual term. Probably remember it after we're done, but it basically he was in charge of ensuring doctrine in the Catholic Church. That's what he was under under Pope John Paul the second. So there were a lot of people at the time when he got elected Pope, that he was, you know, he was like for people that were more, I would say, the more liberal wing of the church did not necessarily like him, because he was a very hard line On doctrine. He was nothing like that when he came but, but Benedict, when he got elected, basically says, I'm a transition Pope. He knew he was already old when he got elected Pope. And, um, I from some of the things I've now that's coming out with, with it, with the FBI, and all this stuff, with Trump getting elected and and a lot of this stuff kind of being being opened up. I mean, there is some rumors that he may have been forced to resign, yeah, to put on to elect the pope that may be a little bit more open to politically aligned. Whether that's true or not, I don't, I have no evidence to indicate that there is some talk. There's some things out there that may, you know, it could simply mean that, you know, look, I'm too old. Yeah, I can't do this job anymore.
Ian
I can imagine it probably weighs on you, like it's
Jason
a huge job. I mean, you, you, I mean you're the leader of the whole cast. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's a lot. I mean, just dealing with the Roman Curia and all the problems that
Ian
I looked at, I looked up, right? Something really quick. It's from what I was able to find. It says DDF, the die castry of the Doctrine of the Faith, correct?
Jason
Yeah, that's, that's basically that ensures that Roman Catholic doctrine stays unified, right? This is what the Church teaches. It's not what I think. It's not what that church thinks, not what the church down the street think. This is what the church is teaching on these subjects. End of story, yeah, and
Ian
if you did that, you were saying that the previous Pope would did that or, right?
Jason
That was his job as to ensure that anything that came up, like, for example, if you have a bishop in many people heard, you may have heard it's liberation theology, okay, it kind of came out of South America. A lot of people accuse Francis of being kind of adopting that sort of theology. Interesting, um, but liberation theology has been condemned, okay, because it's not what it's not it's how it's presented. Is not actual Church teaching. Um, that's just kind of one example. Or you have a particular Bishop that may be saying something. Now you just saw with with with Francis, with Pope Francis, you had Bishop Strickland in Dallas, who was very critical of of some of the things. And he got, he got ex key. Well, he didn't really get ex communicate. He got relieved of his duties as bishop. How often does that happen? Very often it does happen sometimes. But you know, as I said, Francis sometimes is not the most. And unfortunately, I don't want to say attribute things to him, that what comes out in the media? Yeah, a lot of statements come out that these reporters take a snippet and then they the way it's reported. Well, the Pope said this. Well, not really. He didn't say. How often does that happen exactly? So, I mean, we all critical of somehow, how the media never really tells the true story. I think a lot of times that happens with him.
Stoney
Well, wasn't Pope Francis? Isn't he from Latin America? He is. He's the first Latin American Pope, exactly. And this is where this ideology kind of comes from. Yeah, exactly. So there. So that kind of plays into it, a little lot
Jason
of people, a lot of people were very critical of them. I think one of the some of the pressures of maybe electing a Latin American pope is to deal with what's going on in Latin America. Yeah, yeah. The church has been under tremendous stress in that region, where a country that was pretty much silently Catholic, yeah, for many, many years, there's been a lot of inroads of Protestant churches in Latin America. So they really thought bringing a pope into that was from that area would would help in that regard. Right now the church is growing the fastest in Europe and I mean, in Africa and Asia. That's right now where the Catholic church is growing the strongest, some of the most conservative, hard line doctrinal Catholics actually reside in Asia and Africa now, but not in Europe. The
Stoney
Jesuits have always been primarily missionary and educational things, but in the 20th century, they've kind of adopted this libertarian theology and so him, you know, a Jesuit becoming Pope, right? All of a sudden now they're wondering if this isn't a way to remove the church from its kind of, you know, traditional doctrine more into a social, political activism, you know, than what they're supposed to be doing. Yeah? Reading a lot of this, and you hear him talk, oh, yeah, you hear him talk, and he's away from the traditional values. And I'm not knocking anything. I'm just saying, No, he listened to him talk. He's breaking away from traditional values. Well,
Jason
he's breaking away from a lot of what the church normally has emphasized. Yeah, I think what's happened is in, you know, good or bad. You know, when Pope Francis was elected, me basically told about, I remember listening to one of his speeches, you know, he told the churches. And of course, when you're your Pope of Catholics or throughout the world, you know, what are the challenges in America versus what's going in South America? So, you know, unfortunately, you're talking to a worldwide audience, so some things are just not going to resonate in certain areas and others. But, you know, he was basically told everybody, you know, you need to shake things up. You know, you need to reinvigorate and and kind of when I was doing research for this, this topic, of course, it brought a lot of information from a group of ex Catholics who consider themselves Catholics, but basically believe anything, after batting it to is and are an anti Popes. So people like Mel Gibson, which has said this, his father, was very much what they call a Sado vaticanist. I forget the term, yeah, but basically they believe that the the election of John the 23rd was an invalid election. So in there, and there was a Archbishop, I was Archbishop Lefebvre, who, at the time, broke away and basically said that the last that the Pope before him was the last legitimate Pope. So they do have some that even believe that even Pope John Paul second was was an invalid Pope, that his election was invalid. Whether I believe that, I don't necessarily buy that, because I've kind of listened to a bunch of that stuff, and I don't think some of that's just not very you know, it's sad that. But there were a lot of people who were very resistant to changing the mass from Latin and how the Latin Mass was conducted versus what is a typical Catholic mass today in the vernacular, and how that played out. If y'all know that, you know, basically, in pre Vatican two masses, you know, of course, the priest never faced the audience. He faced the tabernacle, right? Yeah, and it was all in Latin. It was nothing. Was in, was in, was in English, or whatever your native country may be, he was in Latin. And so that's why you see pictures of the, you know, little old ladies in the pews reading their rosaries while mass is going on, which is not what you're supposed to be doing. So there was an attempt that to to reinvigorate, to kind of open the doors, bring new air into the church. Was, you know, we're. Going to make the priest face the audience. The audience is going to be much more of a participant, right in the service, versus the way it was before,
Stoney
well before it was the priest, was your connection to heaven. You had to kind of go through the priest. And it was a way to use control over people too. If you wanted to be absolved of your sins, what did you do? You went to Confession? Well, that's, you did those things, and that's not biblical. There's no confession
Jason
in the Bible. Well, there's, I'm gonna push back a little longer, push back the truth. I don't, I don't believe that, because I do believe biblically, it is but, you know, I think confession was, it was very much when, when Jesus basically discharges the apostles to go out and forgive sins. You know, he could have easily told everybody, well, your job is done. It's over with. All they got to do is pray to Me and you're fine. But he didn't say that. He basically told his apostles, you know, you go out and forgive sins which the sins that you forgive, they're forgiven, the ones you withhold, they withhold.
Stoney
But also, everybody has that power, not just the apostles and not just the
Jason
priests. So I don't believe that, but
Stoney
maybe we can get somebody to get a specialist on this. But it's also how the the printing which made the Bible accessible to everybody now, started changing the way people believed in Christ and worshiped. So the printing press helped all of this. The printing
Jason
press did enable the mass production of printed of printed material where things were handwritten before, but they were Bibles in the vernacular languages before
Stoney
the province wealthy could afford that.
Jason
Well, I mean, the fact of the matter is, if you had to hand write a Bible, it was expensive and just the way it was. And the reason they were, you know, some people say they were chained to they were chained to to the to the ambos, and that's because people would steal, steal them, right? You know? So, I mean, the idea that they were trying to keep the Bible away from the masses, I that's that's not necessarily true. I think it's more about circumstances of the times versus and then, of course, when you get the printing press, and things kind of change. But as far as the priests, I mean confession still exists. I mean I go to confession. So I mean it's I still go to reconciliation, what we call it, and I go to a priest into a confessional. So, I mean, that's practice is still there. I think the idea of turning the priest around, putting it in a language where people understood would actually engage the congregation more, and then now your job is the congregation. Okay, you've been screaming that we don't understand Latin. We don't get this. I'm just sitting here observing something. Okay. Now you've got to do your part. You've got to now respond to that. I believe some things were lost. You know, of course, I'm not. I don't know how to speak Latin. I knew some Latin phrases. But beyond that, beyond that, I'm not versed in Latin, but I do believe that, in many ways, I'm somewhat critical, that there were some inadvertent consequences of the changes of the mass. So kind of back to my point was what these people that believe that anything past Vatican two, where it was invalid, you do have a group of of what they call Vatican one Catholics, or Sado Vaticanus, or, I forget the actual term they use, but they were started by Archbishop Lefebvre. Is what happened during that time. And I don't but that's I'm saying a lot of that material I found while while researching this topic, because there's a lot of those groups that subscribe to the anything past Vatican two is invalid. A lot of them really dig, dig into this, this prophecy of Malachi, because they believe that it's all invalid, and basically every Pope, from John the 23rd to present are anti Popes. So yeah,
Stoney
I saw that, and I just didn't want to go down that rabbit hole, yeah, because that's a whole nother.
Jason
That's, that's just crazy. Well, yeah, back. I mean, this this list. It listed anti popes as well as popes, right? So it included everybody, anybody that had a that made a claim to the papal the papal throne, basically is in this list, and some were considered. And, you know, anti Pope. Some were considered regular Popes. I, you know, like, you know, people would say during the the having known Papa papacy, they would be considered anti Popes. And I consider them to be anti popes because the pope sits in Rome, it doesn't sit in having known France, right? So it's it, that's what I'm saying. It's just, just to let people know that when you're diving into this, you're going to get a lot of information on people that subscribe to Archbishop Lefebvre, a rejection of Vatican two. And because, if I recall the pope that eventually led, I think it was like on the third vote, he got elected, if I remember, right, I have to go back and double check that. But I believe John, John, yeah, check to see that if John the 23rd how many rounds of voting before he was elected? Because he basically implemented Vatican two that he was basically carrying out the wishes of what the previous Pope wanted, but he never made it. Just, I think it's held and he died.
Ian
I use a I tried to be Uber, like, super specific to get this right. And of course, I think I just put the word voting in there. And so now it's all like election information and right and election results, John
Jason
poke John the 23rd
Ian
I did. Let's see. Let's see if it's anything okay. It says the papal conclave was held from 25 to 28th October, 1958
Stoney
they took 11 ballots over four days to reach The decision. There you go. October, 25 1958
Jason
Yep. I Yeah. So that's I'm saying. So there was a lot of issues. Like right Cardinal
Stoney
Giuseppe Siri was the four front runner, but failed to secure enough votes due to concerns about his strict conservatism.
Jason
Yeah. So it's, it's, it's, it's interesting. I mean, as I said, Yeah, I, I, when I was doing research for this topic, I really, I was getting a lot of that, and, you know, I've read on some of this, say to say to Vatican as whatever it's
Stoney
called, I had to work extra hard to kind of stay focused on this, because every turn, everywhere you go, there's two or three other avenues of rabbits that it'll try to take. Oh, yeah, it's, it's fascinating
Jason
stuff, yeah, when you, when you deal with, when you deal with this kind of stuff, and that's what look you'll never hear the Catholic Church talk about prophecies. Okay, we don't. We don't. They don't really pay them any attention. You just, although it's full of it, you know, well, to a degree it is, but they don't really talk about prophecy. Now, there are some people to say in the Vatican right now there, there are that this prophecy is very much on the forefront of their mind every time that Pope gets sick. So you know who is next? You know, I'll be very interesting to see what, who might succeed?
Stoney
Yeah, if there's a succession, if he's the last one, and that your, your big rock comes down and, well,
Jason
can be a rock. It could be a rock. It could be,
Stoney
well, the asteroid. What was his name? Again, povid. That's right, yeah,
Jason
the god, that Egyptian God of death and destruction, I believe, is what it's named after. But it's about the size of the Empire State Building.
Stoney
Wow, that would be enough to
Jason
just, I think I said, if it struck the ocean, it would create about a four and a half mile wide crater, which, wow, that's a sizable tsunami that we created with something like that. Believe it or not, I saw one of the potential landing places for this rock is somewhere in in the south part of the Caribbean Sea, around South America, which is not which is not far from where the Chicxulub impact occurred. We're a little bit further. They're away this time around. And that's not nearly as big as the chicks lube or asteroid. I think that was like six miles in diameter. That's a planet, Planet kill. That's a planet altering type of device. Matter of fact, I've been watching a lot of shows on YouTube. Really did a great about an hour and a half show on what if the Chicxulub asteroid struck, yeah, today, and how that would play out. And it had actors in it. They had, it was a documentary, and it showed different things going on in different parts of the earth. And, you know, wow, it's really good. I highly recommend it. It's really good show. But, yeah, so yeah, we'll see kind of one of those things that kind of make you go, hmm, yeah, you know, type of deal. But yeah.
Ian
And I think of it also from like, the perspective too, of like, you know, because it's also prophecy, and you can kind of put things into your own words, or kind of, or, how do you you correlate certain things, like, like, like, it's not sometimes it could be one to one, but sometimes it's also like a, I can't think of the with the terminology for, but it's like a type and shadow sort of thing where it's not really like a just be that says that Rome is gonna be on fire. It doesn't mean it's actually, it could actually be on fire. Like it could also mean that, like, I think of it for, like, a metaphorical sense of like, something could happen.
Jason
It could be when you're dealing with prophecy, you don't really know how that plays out, right, right, right. You know, I know, I know a lot of people that kind of really follow profits and
Stoney
prophecy, but, you see, but see, I believe in that kind of stuff. Because I remember when I had met Miranda, I was a director of security for one of the largest churches in Louisiana at the time, and it one of the prophetess came up to me, and I had told nobody about Miranda, and she came up to me running after church one day, and she says, Stoney, Stoney, I need to talk to you. And I says, Okay, what's going on? She says, I know you're going to ask that girl to marry you. I said, What? She says, I know you're going to ask her to marry you, but, but Jesus told me to tell you, do not have a ring when you ask her to marry you. And I'm like, what you got to have a ring when you ask a girl to marry you? She says, Look, you can ask her to marry you, and she's gonna say yes, but don't have a ring. And I was like, Well, okay, thank you for telling me that. And poof, she was gone. And then I guess it was that Friday or Saturday night the next the next week, we were out to dinner. And I says, Hey, Miranda, in five or six years when I finally get the courage up enough you to ask you to marry me. What kind of ring should I have? Oh, no, God, no, you do not have a ring because I am so particular. And it was only a couple of weeks later when I asked her to marry me, but I didn't have a ring, but she did say yes, and I gave her a little box that had a little tag in it that said a ring of your choice. Yeah, but see how, how did she know, number one, that I was going to ask Miranda to marry me, and number two, how did she know not to have a ring because I had messed that up, right? So sometimes things can come true, can't they?
Ian
Right, right, right? I'm not saying, I'm not saying none of it's real. I'm just saying I agree with you, but, but what's the context
Stoney
of it? Yeah, when they were doing these prophecies 1000 years ago, something being on fire, they saw maybe what they thought was fire. But what does that mean to us today? That could be a nuclear bomb, that could be a meteor hitting down popes
Jason
or of that, or volcano, or a volcano, right?
Stoney
So they just saw what they thought, you know, right? They put it in there,
Ian
and that, All I was saying was, like, what if I mean, like, what the point that I'm saying is, like, what if you take that even one step further than like, a physical sense of the word, of like, what if Rome will fall or Rome will burn? And like, it means, in like, a, you know, like an uprising sense, sure, ever, you know, and that's just the terminology, they
Stoney
will fall and burn, they are protesting, right? So,
Ian
like, that's kind of what I meant, of like that, you know, what if it could, you know, take it one step further to something different, where?
Stoney
And it's not far to take that. It really isn't, isn't,
Ian
especially when it comes to prophecies, and things can be kind of up to interpretation. I guess in some it's
Stoney
always ambiguous until it happens. Yeah, yeah. We won't.
Ian
We won't get into it today. But I know like if. Anybody's ever read the book of Revelation? I've heard a lot of people talk about that. It's like, do there's a lot of like, mythical things that are talked about there. And people say, like, is it gonna be actually those mythical things, or was it his interpretation of what he was seeing in this vision, and him trying to put it into words that he could understand in the Bible? Like, so is it? Is this, you know, this beast in Revelation, going to be some sort of mechanical thing of our creation today, Israel is a is a dragon. I
Jason
would venture to say that the the beast I was reading, thought that you brought that up. I, some people have attributed the beast of the sea, yeah, to actually be the EU,
Ian
like things like that, where it's like, and it could, you know, him putting it into words for the for the people of his generation, and for him to say, like he's having these visions of the future potentially, or these, like, prophetic, you know, I'm
Jason
saying you gotta be careful revelation. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's been a very difficult. It's all filled with a lot of symbolism, and unfortunately, I mean, look, there was during the Reformation Luther. Want to get rid of it. Oh yeah. So it's, it's definitely a book that's, it's, oh yeah. You can kind of make what you want out of it. I don't necessarily believe. I have never subscribed that the book of Revelation is a book of about the future the way, I believe revelation has already been revealed, but I believe there are a lot of symbolism in there that you got to be real careful to really before you kind of dive into it. Now, it's fun. It's, you know, as it is fun to talk about the end of the world and what it's going to look like. And, you know, it makes for good entertainment. And I enjoy as much as anybody. I love hearing about
Stoney
that stuff. Gotta be careful, right? So
Jason
it's a well, I hope that people got a really, got a kind of a gist of what this whole prophecy of Saint Malachi is. Yep, there's plenty of information out there on it, and I encourage people to to go look and see what it has to say and let us know what you think. Yes,
Ian
we have our email address. Get offended together@gmail.com, where you can send us some more long form responses. You can also any of the comment sections I think are on some of the platforms like Spotify and YouTube. You can type out some comments there and let us know
Stoney
and our website, website as well. Retrospect, podcast.com Correct.
Ian
Give us a subscribe, give us a like. We appreciate you guys listening, and until next time, bye, Goodbye, everyone. God bless.
Stoney
Whether you believe or not in the Prophecy of the Popes. One thing is clear, it has survived centuries of scrutiny, fascination and controversy, but maybe its real power isn't in predicting the future, but reminding us of the mysteries of faith, power and destiny. Will the final prophecy come true, or has it already been revealed without us even realizing it, keep asking questions, because That is the real understanding. You're the best peace.