Project Stargate: The CIA's Psychic Spy Program | Retrospect Ep.186

In this week’s episode we discussed the mysterious world of Project Stargate, the U.S. government's secret program that explored psychic phenomena for intelligence gathering during the Cold War. From remote viewing experiments to claims of mind-over-matter, we uncover the strange history behind this classified initiative, the people involved, and what the declassified documents reveal about the government's belief in psychic warfare.

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Transcript

Project Stargate, CIA, psychic spies, remote viewing, human consciousness, military intelligence, Fort Meade, ESP, anomalous mental phenomena, Soviet parapsychological research, declassified documents, mysticism, psychedelic drugs, Defense Intelligence Agency, Ingo Swann.

Jason  
In the darkest years of the Cold War, while missiles sat primed and spies slipped through shadows, a stranger, war was being fought behind closed doors, a war not of bullets or bombs, but of mines. This was the frontier. No one saw coming a classified program buried within the military intelligence team of psychics, soldiers and scientists tasked with doing the impossible to see across oceans, peer behind enemy lines and gather intelligence using only the power of thought. They called it project Stargate. At first glance, it sounds like science fiction, remote viewing, psychic spies, mind to mind communication. But this wasn't a Hollywood script. This was real, funded by the CIA, backed by the Department of Defense, and kept secret for decades its mission to explore the limits of human consciousness to turn thought into a weapon and to use the human mind as a tool of war. Some say it was a waste of taxpayer dollars. Others say it was one of the most daring experiments in intelligence history. But one thing is certain, when the government opens the door to the unknown, doesn't always close behind them. This is the true story of spies who stared into the dark and sometimes something stared back. Welcome to project Stargate. Welcome

Ian  
to the retrospect podcast, a show of people come together from different walks of life and discuss a topic from their generation's perspective. Generation's perspective. My name is Ian, and as always, I'm joined by Jason. Hello, everyone. Stoney, hello, talking about

Stoney   
something technically. Oh, there was a movie about it, Men Who Stare at Goats. And it was based off of this. And it was funny, but it was also first Earth battalion and project Stargate, and that Men Who Stare at Goats. Was it George Clooney? Yeah, that movie was based off of these projects, right? I think with a little theatrical ISIS,

Jason  
I think, yeah, from what I do, remember doing when I was doing research for this, I think it was, MK, well, it was like, yeah, they mentioned about some movies, or movie that was made regarding this, and it was kind of goofy and right, didn't really, I think, do the project justice. But you know, when you're dealing with a topic like this, it's, you know, to most people, this would be crazy. I mean, let's just be honest. I mean, most people would look at this stuff and go, Yeah, okay, whatever. But, you know, I didn't realize just how involved our government and in essence, what is probably most important to people are tax dollars that were being used to fund this. And just to kind of provide a, you know, an opening here, of what, exactly what was project Stargate and I just kind of a basic, you know, that way our audience has an idea what this what they were trying to do, right? He said, you know, Project Stargate was a US Army designed to investigate the potential for psychic phenomena, particularly, particularly remote viewing in military and intelligence applications. His primary goal was to determine whether individuals could use extra sensory perception. We know that as ESP to gather information about distant or unseen targets. In more formal terms, Stargate was categorized under anomalous. Mental phenomena research and it aimed to assess whether psychic functioning could be used operationally for tasks like locating hostages, gathering intelligence on enemy facilities, tracking lost aircraft or ships and detecting threats like weapons or hidden bunkers. So that just kind of gives you a you know, what this whole thing was about, and yes, and what year

Ian  
was all that taking place

Stoney   
again, 78 was when it's projects

Jason  
Stargate. 72 to 95 I got 7819 72 is when it started and it ended in 1995 and this is crazy that like that was in Fort Meade Maryland. It was in Fort Meade Maryland. And it, you know, the program didn't start off as Stargate it. There was a lot of other iterations of the program,

Stoney   
and it's probably still operating today under another iteration,

Jason  
like for the names I found of it the first, the first designation for this program was scan eight. Oh,

Stoney   
see first Earth battalion by current Lieutenant Colonel Jim cowher, and was the first iteration.

Jason  
Well, it doesn't it may be. These are the ones I picked. But scan eight, then gondola, wish grill, flame center lane got those drag Dragoon

absorbed. Man project

CF, Sun streak, and then eventually Stargate. So it is kind of going through several iterations till it finally settled on its most popular and what it's known by now. And look, the only reason we know anything about this program is because the CIA lost a three year lawsuit to a nonprofit news entity called moon rock, or the moon, Muck rock, I'm sorry, and they've released about 13 million pages of classified documents. So most of the information that we have about this program comes from those documents that we released. Now there are some redactions in there, from my understanding, and there we go, yeah, and they're still, they are still some that are hidden away also, but yeah. I mean, you know, I know in our western mind that we've kind of lost the ability to allow for mysticism in our culture and and I've kind of thought about that, and I think about that on a lot of different levels, on on our, you know, our heavy emphasis on the hard sciences, I Even even religiously. I think of of of the changes in Vatican two, when a lot of the, what I would call the mysticism of Catholicism was kind of taken out, and now it, you kind of it reduced it to some level where it was a little bit more basic, so to speak. I think there's been a move in the West to really kind of kick out these things mysticism

Stoney   
and holistic. Think about when this was coming out. We're talking about the 70s, early 70s, late 70s, psychedelic drugs, apparently, psychedelic Well, that's when it started coming out. Was the 60s and early 70s, with all the psychedelic drugs, people were looking into the mystic, they were looking into those things.

Jason  
That's what started the kind of the That's right, and then rebirth of that.

Stoney   
And then all of a sudden, bam, we get the 80s and the 90s, and everybody's walking away from that now, because we're shocked at all the things we did in the 70s. Yeah, thank God. Thank God there was no cameras back then. Because I'm saying, you know,

Jason  
well, you know, it's funny. Sound guilty.

Stoney   
Thank you for no cell phones. You

Jason  
know, it's, it is, I would, matter of fact, in reading, kind of going over the kind of the final evaluative report that was put out in 95 which basically led to the CIA shutting down Stargate. You know, there were changes, if you what I picked up a lot was the CIA was in a different place at that time versus, you know, now we know better. And they were kind of crazy back then, but you know, now we, we're kind of, you know, we've, we're kind of beyond all that, and on and on and on which, you know, I be honest with you, it's amazing of some of. The findings that this program, the I should say the number of successes, right?

Stoney   
Well, there were successes that the number of successes

Jason  
were beyond what I would call be it was beyond randomness, that there was something, there was something, there was an anomaly there, that something was happening. And I don't know, did y'all watch any videos on on Joe

Stoney   
mcmonacle, no, but he did pop up. We got some stuff on him. Yeah,

Jason  
he was a great video. I watched a about a six hour Well, interview with him on the Sean Ryan Show. He's a big podcaster, yeah, uh, had him on. He was actually, uh, 001, and he worked directly for the Pentagon. Matter of fact, he was rewarded, I believe, with the Legion of Valor, his by the army, which is probably the highest metal that the Army gives. Yeah, and I really goes back to his days in Vietnam, where he says, where he kind of started perfecting this

Stoney   
stuff, psychedelic drugs. Well, saying, I mean,

Jason  
whether he took psychedelics, I don't know, but he was able to do some things, and just some of the successes of this program, one of them that really jumped out at me, because I remember going and watching the movie, was The Hunt for Red October. Yeah, that movie, movie. Remember that submarine he found? Really, before even launched, he was able to locate and let our government know the Soviets were fixing to launch this new which at that time was the largest submarine in the world, right? Which was just incredible, yeah, so, yeah, this program over its I guess what? 23 years, I think the CIA, I saw a figure of about 20 million they spent on that program, which, you know, and it feels like nothing in the scope of the DoD

Stoney   
budget. Doge isn't even looking at that right now. I'm just

Jason  
saying, but yeah, I mean, it's, it's it. I just kind of picking up on some of, I think there was just some reluctance. You know, their funding was approved every year. So there was never, they were never given funding for like five years. It was, you had, they had to go to Congress every year to get a reappropriation to keep this project, Stargate going, Yeah, which, to me, is amazing that it went 23 years. That's having to go every year to Congress to basically tell it's

Ian  
also, like you said, like, the fact that they're able to probably bring some, like, some merit to what they're doing probably helped. I think that a lot. Well,

Jason  
I mean, you have to think in the 70s, I think people were a little bit more open. Now than the 70s, you're at the height of the Cold War. They come to find out that Soviets were spending a tremendous amount of money on their own parapsychological research. I've got numbers in this. In the early 70s, they were spending about 60,000 rubles per year. By 75 they were spending 300 million rubles a year. Now, I don't know what the conversion that would have been back in that, but you can see the Soviets believed in this program. History

Ian  
repeats itself. And it's the parallel right now with AI, like we're and it would at an arms race right now with China. For Are you having the best AI? And it's just some things never change. But, yeah, it's interesting to see that that's one. All it takes is the quote, unquote, the enemy to start, you know, digging around and trying to find something. We'll be like, Oh, well, we gotta, well, you would have, you have, you would

Jason  
have to think their own remote viewers must have had success against against us, right? Actually, they were actually studying this back into the 20s, crazy, so they but, you know, you kind of listen to a few people talk on this, I believe their culture is a little bit more open to mysticism and it's not as far in and they're kind of their, their lexicon, so I think they were more open in this saying, Yeah, we, I can easily see that there, that the mind can do things that, right? Maybe we don't know, you know, it's, I've always said that, I think in many ways, more willing to drop. Money on it, right? Yeah. I mean, I just, well, I mean, they're looking for any way to get over the United States at that time. So, yeah, if the United States was doing this, can you imagine? I mean, there's, I mean, I don't care what you're hiding, I'm gonna find it, right. And I don't even have to go to your country to find it crazy. I can just sit in my room. You're

Ian  
right, and it feels out of this world. I mean,

Jason  
matter of fact, I know it copied this quote from at the time as night in 1977 a North Carolina congressman, Charlie Rose, talking with reps from every state said, it seems to me, remote view would be a hell of a cheap radar system. And if the Russians have it, and we don't, we're in serious trouble. So obviously, this stuff was very much a part of kind of the everyday, you know, lingo of what's going on in Congress about this program. Because, I imagine, definitely certain people in Congress probably very well aware of it, right? Yeah. So, you know, hey, I mean, it can be absolutely, you

Stoney   
know, part, part of the the even the closing down of the program was highly kind of sketch, right? Because they had a panel, and this panel consisted of people like Ray Hyman, who had previously completely criticized remote viewing, and the last director, Dr Edwin May. Edwin May said that they it's like Jason said, every year you have to go get your funding. So the only way you can do that is to show your successes. We've done this, this. We found the submarine. We've done this. We Hey, we made this goat faint. We did this, this, this, and this. And so when they the this panel, they say only looked at the last two or three months of the program and ignored over 10 years of successes. And I love his quote. He said, they looked only at the last the final few months of the program. That's like judging the NBA team by their last two games, you know, so were they just trying? I think they were just trying to close it down, to move it to something else, right? A little more clandestine, a little more hidden. Because, like you said, the CIA's having to pump all these documents out. They're having to do all of this stuff change the name, hey. But if we bring it over here, we can put more funding into it, and nobody will know. Well,

Jason  
I will tell from what I found that the CIA was, believe it or not, they were questioned about this in 2021

Stoney   
really? Yeah, they're being questioned about it again because more documents are coming out with the Trump declassification.

Jason  
Basically they said, they said the assessment of the CIA officers involved in the program during the 70s Was that enough accurate remote viewing experiences existed to defy randomness. They further indicated from very early in CIA's history, they have been interested in investigating whether extra sensory perception, ESP or other paranormal, paranormal phenomenon, generally called parapsychology, exists, and if so, whether they had operational uses for intelligence. And actually the earliest record they have in their in CIA's, in the CIA's history, was a memorandum in 1948 where they were speculating on whether hypnotized people could be used for long distance communication. So the CIA has been involved in, you know, some people would consider cook stuff. They've

Stoney   
been doing that from sleep deprivation. LSD, am I

Ian  
not mistaken? I don't remember the all the details on MK Ultra. Wasn't it like a the mine

Jason  
altering drugs? Basically, they, they a lot of unsuspecting Americans and Canadians. And were, yeah, they were they, I think the CIA by 95 was really trying to distance itself from some of these kind of programs. I mean, you think, okay, 95 the Cold War is over. We're transitioning into a new type of world. Now. There's no more big, bad Soviet Union over there on the other side with all their missiles pointing at us. You know, we're the top dog now, right here, there ain't nobody, can touch us. So I think unfortunately, circumstances force you to change. Oh, yeah, whereas maybe when you're in a more kind of a contentious situation, maybe you're more willing to kind of push boundaries on what you're willing to do to possibly get an edge.

Stoney   
But it was all. So becoming very politically risky, and so maybe it just got buried behind corporate NDAs and black budgets. Well, I mean, you know, I mean, it was becoming extremely risky, and like we were talking about, the culture of America was changing away from this mystic stuff into something else, yeah,

Jason  
I think the kind of the fruit of the 60s generation with psychedelics and and just they the exploration of the mind, by the time you get into 90s, I think a lot of that had kind of dried up. Well,

Stoney   
it was, it was pot and cocaine in the 90s. I mean, they left the psychedelics behind even heroin wasn't the most now heroin, subsequently, in the 2000 20,020 2000s whatever I'm trying to say, Yeah, usually you don't have that, but heroines making a comeback. But even heroin had died off, right? I

Jason  
and I and along those same lines, I think you starting to see a resurgence back of psychedelics. Yes, about it now. And the cycle goes up and down. I mean, there's times when, you know, we so

Stoney   
many times that we said on the show, there's a big pendulum, yeah, and that pendulum swings and it's coming back the other way. Yeah, a

Jason  
little bit. I think there's now a big, a big, you know, push on, on esoteric type topics, I especially think now with with podcast world and stuff like that, and you've gotten away from just standard media, I think you're now seeing a lot of these topics being talked about, Whereas before, the media just didn't pay him any mind because they had X amount getting paid to do ain't paid to do that. So I yeah, I think it's a it's it was an incredible and attempt to look at pushing the boundaries of our reality. And I look, I've always said I believe that we have not really understood our own reality here. I think we've all heard that we only use X percent of our brain, right? You know, we've all heard that. Now the question is, how do you measure that? I don't know. I'm sure there's some tests. Well, you know, he's only using 20% of the brain, or 20 I

Stoney   
think we're down to 10 to 12%

Jason  
so the question is, is, how do you unlock that other part of the brain, if it can do and and obviously, you know, reading about Project Stargate, it appears that the practices were something that could be learned, that it was something that wasn't just something that there were some people who were better at it, but everybody had the potential to do it, which really perked The interest of government, of the government in this matter, some of the first people involved in this program was a DR Harold put off. He was a PhD in electrical engineering. His specialty was key specialties, quantum electronics and zero point energy. And then another guy by the name of Russell Targ. He was not a professor. He had his own interest. I didn't quite remember exactly what it was, but he was not, I don't think he was a professional academic. Well, he was

Stoney   
mostly in the ESP and non logical consciousness, okay, non local consciousness, right? So he was, he was not into the mind, mind him and put off, kind of worked, right? I believe

Jason  
it was at the Stanford Research Institute and, and so I think that's where they got started in doing, starting this, this program. And then, of course, their, their famous, really, guy that came on was, I think, a last name of rice. Do y'all remember a guy by name of rice? He was a former police officer, yes, from Burbank. I believe was Burbank, California. I believe was a former police command, rice, Pat, rice, rice, right? He was like the first guy that they brought on. He was an incredible remote viewer.

Stoney   
He was also, oddly enough, a Scientologist. Yeah, he was

Jason  
Yes. Who now, now put off was right, no. Rice was Rice was yes, okay? Because I know Dr Harold put off was also a huge figure in the Scientology world. Matter of fact, he had risen to the very top in it. But he abandoned it after he got involved with, with, with projects. Eventually, Project Star game now ego swan was another Pat.

Stoney   
Price died mysteriously in 1975 under unusual circumstances in Las Vegas, heart attack wasn't. And they say, some claim it was the CIA or KGB involvement, because some of the things he saw were way too accurate.

Jason  
Well, that's, I'm saying, there was very few people that were as good as Pat was a pat rice, Pat price.

Stoney   
Well, he said he was a legend in the community. Yeah, he was. They believed his work in remote viewing was real. Oh yeah,

Jason  
oh yeah. He had a lot of success. Ego swan was the guy that came on also, matter of fact, ego Swan designed the foundational remote viewing techniques are actually still used today, because there are some private entities that are

Stoney   
RV coordinate, remote view, yeah,

Jason  
that they were

Stoney   
had put off, or however you say, right, yeah, because

Jason  
some of these guys left, left project, Stargate, I know you mentioned Edwin. May, I actually watched an interview with Ed May was very good about and he talked about the program, the history of it, and matter of fact, they are still all of the people that were involved with Stargate, even today. Very much believed in the success of that program. It actually worked

Stoney   
well. Swann, one of his big feats was, was that he saw Jupiter before NASA's pioneer 10 flyby, and allegedly he was describing the rings and weather patterns that were later confirmed by the spacecraft. And he was extremely accurate, yeah,

Jason  
that, but see, that's the deal. Because I know, listening to Ed, may they say that Joe mcmonacle, he, he was also a guy that basically had, was, was very much up there with with Pat price. Matter of fact, he may have even been more, but he did a remote viewing. And, of course, Ed may basically said, you can't make that kind of prediction, but he basically did, did a remote view on Mars, but supposedly picked up remnants of it, any an ancient civilization? Well,

Stoney   
Swan, Swan had said, There, he said he viewed alien structures on the moon. And he kind of detailed this later in his book, penetration. But he saw stuff, alien stuff on the moon. So these guys were, you know, and this guy, he is noted as the father of remote viewing, and he continues to influence New Age thinkers and psychic communities because they he was kind of the Father to it, yeah, he kind of brought all this. And I'm talking about ego Swan, yeah,

Jason  
ego swan was, he was, he was definitely he was, he was, he was up there, as far as his, his contributions to this, this specialty, and I'll be very curious. Right now, there is a an institute, I don't know if y'all revs, the Monroe Institute, yeah, I've heard about that. Okay, well, that's what they do. This is what they do. Matter of fact, Joe mcmonacle is, is one of the board, on board, the board of directors, I believe for that. But it's probably like

Ian  
a month or so ago, I listened to a podcast about the Monroe Institute. It went to Hulk all kinds of

Jason  
deals. Well they do, they do other than remote viewing. I mean, I think they do like astral projection and telekinesis. And I forgot

Ian  
the name of the guy who started it, but he did that whole process where he would, like go to sleep and then would have these, like out of body experience, right control, this exact form or whatever, exactly,

Jason  
you know, it's so funny, the trying to give an explanation of how this works, yeah. And guess what, you know things I was kind of picking up, like this universal consciousness, yeah, just, you know, you know, the Hey, the Akashic Record, oh, all this stuff, this data bank in the sky, so to speak. Yeah, I kind of picked up a little bit of of of that when I was doing some research on this. And as I said, some people were better at it than others. And I think ultimately, while the CIA canceled this, it wasn't that they didn't have success. I think

Stoney   
they were afraid the public. What would happen to the public if they accepted psychic spying as real. I think that was one of their top reasons for getting rid well, because remember, we're talking about now we're talking about, we're out of the mystic arena now. We're in, coming into the 2000s and we're totally. Against that kind of stuff. What if? What would that do to the public? What would that do to the American people? If all of a sudden we realized psychic spying was real? Well, obviously we don't need to be putting in $100 billion every year to the CIA, or how much ever we spend to do this, right? I

Jason  
think, I think what I picked up based in that last report, and I right now, the name of the report, it that came out 90 in 1995 that basically, they basically evaluation was not that that they didn't have some success. They did because it's documented. You have 23 years of research, it is documented. They found things through this technique. Yeah, I think it was the unreliability of it, right? Because the problem is, in a in a laboratory, you're not having to worry about kind of life and death, so to speak, whereas maybe on in a in a tense situation where the data has to be correct or lives are lost, yeah, I think that's the problem with it. It wasn't

Ian  
it was not a science. It's an art. Is what it feels Yeah, it wasn't

Jason  
something that they could 100% rely on to find what they were trying to find in it work at that giving moment where they needed it to work. And I think that was the problem.

Ian  
Something that is like, fundamentally based on like human feelings is not something that's going to go very well in this super scientific or something that needs like you said, outcomes, like hard outcomes. When it's all up to, like human emotion, it's like, oh, that doesn't

Jason  
I mean, I know listening to, listening to Joe mcmonacle, when on his interview with on the Sean Ryan Show, he was doc, he was telling about a a missing persons case that he that he was called by the local sheriff. There was a little boy missing, and he basically told the deputy to go down this road, get out of your car, walk it, you know, X amount of steps in this direction, call out his name. You'll hear, you'll, you'll, he'll hear your voice, dang. And guess what? That's exactly. That's exactly what happened. I mean, it to me, that just blows my mind. How do you know that? I mean, says got to be something to this to I mean, you just don't randomly just, oh, I've Yeah, just walk out there and walk so far and oh yeah, and call out the name and the kid will be, yeah, come on, right. Yeah, really,

Stoney   
well, you were talking about earlier this lawsuit, and that was, I think around 2003 I think it was 17, 2017, they lost. And there was another lawsuit in 2003 where they released 13,000 pages of stuff. And these sessions had transcripts, viewing sessions, operational notes and debriefs for possible non human entities, underground facilities and even Mars related targets.

Jason  
Yeah, when people were saying they were doing remote viewings out in space. Oh, yeah, you can only imagine what, what? Then it starts

Ian  
to get really into the crazy realm, right? Yeah, it's one that I feel like there's a suspension of disbelief for like, being able to, like, have like, a spirit, or like, have some sort of, like, other, other worldly, spiritual aspect in on Earth. But once you start dealing with things that are but

Stoney   
if I may, when we had x man on, we talked about, maybe they weren't traveling at the speed of light. We were talking about conscience powered, right thing. I'm just talking, what if it is all conscious? What if that is possible through if we can, they, they can power a conscious, powered ship to go across, you know, the universe. Maybe we're just at the early stages, if we're looking at, you know, the

Ian  
perception of it. I was like, for me, I can understand. I could put, I can realistically put myself in, in that, in that context, back in, you know, late 80s, early 90s and be like I believe in the spiritual nature of things. I believe that probably somebody could realistically if I allow myself to believe in ghosts or an afterlife or God or whatever. And I could allow myself to think that you could somehow spiritually through the connection of other human beings, I could suspend my disbelief enough to believe that you could probably do something that. You could probably do something like that. But I could also see, at the same time, you try and tell somebody like that in that period of time. I also saw things on Mars even I would be like, Well,

Stoney   
personally, I believe you share what

Ian  
exactly right, because then then it starts to

Jason  
get kind of for me, that's they. Were, I mean, Joe mcmonacle. You know, when his interview, he mentioned a few names of people who were really good. And I believe another name that he mentioned was a lady by the name of Angela Ford was another name if, I'm say, if I'm remembering her name right. But she was also interviewed by the same guy that I listened on with, with Joe on Sean Ryan show he interviewed a number of people, right looks like back to back that were associated with Project Stargate and Angela Ford was also a very prominent person. Was very successful. And when I say successful, I think the term was where it would go beyond just a statistical chance of randomness, which I think was just under 50% Wow.

Stoney   
Well, she worked for dia, the Defense Intelligence Agency, and she was in Project Stargate, yeah, but she's kind of been overlooked, right? But I think it was possibly because of her success too.

Jason  
You know, I've found it. I find it. And this was kind of a very awkward moment in the interview, but I believe Sean asked her, have you gone back in the past? And I think he brought up something to the effect of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, really. And she had a very uneasy look on her face, and she refused to answer. Oh my gosh, yeah, weird. He goes, you want to talk about and she, I can just, she was just shaking her head. So found that interesting. Yeah.

Stoney   
She, she a customs agent had disappeared, had left and fled the country. And she said that, you will, when she did her remote viewing, you will see something like Lowell Wyoming, and they found him in level Wyoming, which is just off by one letter. But maybe, you know, you could kind of see that a little differently look,

Jason  
one of the, one of the big things that were found. I'm sure y'all read this. Was it Skylab? When SKYLAB was, was was coming back and had had a decaying orbit, and they, they were at that time, they had no way of knowing where this thing was going to land, whether it was going to drop, you know, suitcase or refrigerator size pieces on people's houses and stuff. Yeah, they had no they, they got with, with Joe mcmonacle on this. He basically narrowed it down to an area in Australia, about 60 mile area in Australia. He missed it by a a like a little. I mean, it was a small amount, but can't you imagine? Yeah, you're just randomly, I am picking, I think it's going to be coming down over a this area, over a x amount of mile area in the desert of Australia. Well,

Stoney   
just think if he just said off, if he'd have just said Australia, and it, oh, wow. How did he know that? Yeah, but you're gonna bitch and moan about, you know, 20 miles

Jason  
off me saying he it was incredible. I was listening to that. I said, You've got to be kidding me. So he, obviously, he was very gifted, and it's very interesting of his past and where he came from and his upbringing, and it just, you know, obviously, he had a gift and and for whatever reason it, he was very successful in in in finding things right and letting people know about things that were going to happen, right? So I thought that was a biggie. He also put out a book too, yeah? Well, they all

Stoney   
have, you know, doing lectures and talks, yeah?

Jason  
And if I would have had more time, you know, a lot of these people that that really, do you know, I'll listen to a couple podcasts regarding this topic, yeah, and they took months to investigate and really put together, you know, their material. So it was a wealth of information on some of this stuff. And some of these things are three and four hours long. Oh, yeah, you know. So I urge people to look into this stuff and read about it, and don't just kind of, you know, kick it to the curb, or, you know, kind of close your mind off to it, because obviously our own government believed that it worked for

Ian  
20 something years, for 20. Me something here, possibly still

Jason  
today, they're still doing this, so some way, yeah, you know, it kind of reminds me of a little bit. You know, the there was another, I don't know if there's anything connecting the CIA to it, but there was another movie that came out called the Atticus Institute. I don't know if you've ever seen that, seen that one, but it is the actual, supposedly, the government study of possession. Wow, and it, it is the only case that the government, of a government, documented possession. Check it out. What is it called? Again? It's called the Atticus Institute. Okay. Is very disturbing, I bet. But this kind of reminds me of, probably, it looks like it kind of happened about the same era, right, that this is going on. So, you mean, you got all you got MK Ultra, you got project, star, gay, you got the MJ 12, you got, you got that one. You've got the gateway experience, I believe is another one. A lot of these things that I, you know, I give the CIA credit, if it's somehow, it can be utilized as a it can be weaponized. It can be used to gather information, right? They're willing to go there. Oh yeah, they're gonna spend some money. They're gonna spend some money on it. So, yeah, it's, it's kind of, you know, I don't know where a lot of people like to just kind of, I know people kind of like the way the world they've got their little world kind of packed in a certain way, and the puzzle is put together in a certain way. And I'm comfortable with that, and I don't want to venture beyond those boundaries, because the whole thing may fall apart on and then my whole worldview might completely collapse. So I think this kind of goes in line with some of our other topics we've talked about. Nicola Tesla, oh, yeah, what did he believe in? And, you know, kind of this universal consciousness, this, you know, data, bank of knowledge, you know, the other guy, that guy that founded Port Arthur, was Arthur Stillwell, yes,

Stoney   
Arthur Stillwell,

Jason  
you know, I kind of put him in there. Edgar Casey, Yeah, same, I forgot about that same, same thing that these people seem to have something going on with them, or some connection to something, some connection to something that gives them some view that, you know, kind of the third eye, right? I think they, you know, they kind of mentioned the mind at the third eye. So yeah, I mean, this stuff has been a I have to say, I've enjoyed every moment researching this topic, because I just couldn't get enough of it. I just was going on and on and just kind of just kind of diving into some of this stuff. And as I said, just if anybody's interested the, as I said, mentioned earlier, that where most of the information comes from. Now that we know of project Stargate was a result of this 2017 lawsuit, the CIA laws. It's called the crest archive, and it's named after, I believe the first project officer of project Stargate was Dr Kenneth, a crest, wow. So all that data, they call it the crest archive. So this is basically 20 some years of of data that's just been, you know, classified documents. And it also

Ian  
makes me think a little bit too of like, what is currently being hidden right now that we'll probably find by happenstance, probably

Jason  
a lot of stuff a couple decades. I mean, look, they just released, what they just made public, the new SR, oh two, or whatever it is, a new black bird, right?

Stoney   
Um, SR 71 sun, yeah,

Jason  
and the new one, and it's supposed to be just like, I can't even think what the speeds. I think it gets faster than the speed of sound.

Stoney   
Oh, it's definitely faster than the speed of sound. I

Jason  
think it's, you know, mock. I forget what you may want to look it up with the new SR 72 black bird. It can do. But you know, these are projects that are hidden or denied until eventually they release them like, just like

Ian  
it says, The SR 72 dark star is a concept for a hypersonic aircraft, high processor to the SR 71 Blackbird. So the Dark Star is developed by Lockheed Martin. And it says it is designed as an unmanned, reusable aircraft capable of operating at Mach six plus

Jason  
six plus 4600

Ian  
miles per hour, yeah, making it significantly faster than the SR 71 the Dark Star. Purpose is to conduct intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance missions almost twice as fast as s ourselves.

Jason  
Dang dude, I can't even imagine flying well.

Stoney   
They've known for decades and decades that the human was stopping any faster speed because our bodies, our bodies couldn't handle it, the weakest link, and also, now, if it's unmanned, it also

Ian  
can go to an altitude of 85,000 feet. Yeah,

Jason  
I think it hugs. It can hug, literally, the upper atmosphere, where it touches space. Crazy dude, you know. So, you know, we've all heard, you know, we heard about, you know, UFO technology, and trying to understand how this technology is powered. You know, there's, there's been talk that this technology actually is driven by consciousness and thought, which is faster than the speed of light. So if you think about that, if you can develop a piece of technology you can control by thought, yeah. I mean, I can't even imagine what that would be. You know how that would look? Then I can see how some of these technologies, where people have seen these objects in the sky, literally go 90 degrees, yeah, instantaneously. The only way you could do that is a combination of anti grav tech, oh, by the way, our government has finally said that they have anti graft tech, really? Oh, yes, I haven't seen that. Oh, you didn't see the news, the new I think I forwarded to you guys as possible, it might be a possible, possible podcast episode, yeah, what do they what do they say? I've got it back here, yeah, White House says it has tech that can manipulate time and space.

Stoney   
Yeah, I saw that the other day. Yeah, I must have missed that one.

Jason  
And not only that, now there's talk that the actual Malaysian flight. They've never found this was a test stop. I'm just saying, I'm just saying that's, that's what's floating out there. All right, you know, yeah, they warped time in space and made it disappear.

Ian  
That's crazy. Well,

Stoney   
the Philadelphia Experiment, the the destroyers, at the destroyer that had all that stuff happen, you

Jason  
don't think they stop experimenting with no some people say it never happened. Some people say it did. I don't know it's to me, you got people that supposedly are welded into the metal after this thing disappeared and came back. Yeah, they supposedly though the, I mean, they showed people coming back on board and seeing guys like their bodies are fused into

Stoney   
the into the ship. Yeah, be a good movie for your show, your other podcast,

Jason  
actually, yeah, yeah, there's a couple things there, but yeah. I mean, some people say it's, no, it was all BS and no, the ship was never, never disappeared. Some say, I mean, you know, who knows? But I'm just saying all of these things that Stargate talks about, this is what I'm talking about, this consciousness, how consciousness, and I'm, you're gonna see it as we we talked about transhumanism last episode. Yep. What I mean, the marriage of biology and nanotech. Yep, and listen to machines. We've had

Stoney   
our buddy Brandon on a number of times talking about Nanotech and wetware and everything else. So

Jason  
I'm a firm believer that, believe me, there are other countries that are doing this stuff also.

Stoney   
So yeah, but what about countries like China who believe in mysticism? Well, they probably are doing it too. That's what I'm saying. They believe in it more than us, right? Oh, yeah, the monks, the Buddhists, the all of these things, they believe in this mysticism, right? We're fighting it tooth and nail, yeah? But they, they, that's part of their culture,

Jason  
right? It's, it's somehow, in the West, we've lost the ability, what I would call we've lost our imagination. In many ways, we as part of the educational we've lost our imagination, and that for people who I think exhibit that, I think in some ways, they're criticized. They're made fun of, they're kind of denigrated a little bit. You're, you know, you're crazy, you know, you know, beyond anything that I can't prove under, you know, under a microscope, or, you know, under a certain regimented, supposed then it somehow, it's not real. I think what project Stargate has shown that we really don't know much at all. Yeah, we're really on the tip of the iceberg of really what is capable of, what we are really, truly capable of. I've always firmly believed that, that that we have yet to experience our full potential as human beings. Right? What it's going to take for us to kind of break free and to be able to embrace some of this stuff, and not because I'm gonna tell you some of the criticisms in Congress at the time, which was so hard for them going every year to get funding, you have some congressmen basically saying, that's the devil's work, you know. So you're fighting this a good bit of the population. Then the minute you bring this up, oh, that's all the devil doing that. Well, we don't know if it is or it is or isn't right. We don't know that. But, you know, I mean, does the devil want people to go find missing people? And I don't. I mean, to me, the idea of that is a little, kind of a little kind of a little simplistic, I think, kind of a gray area. It's a gray area I don't know. I mean, I'm not saying, you know, look, I'm a firm believer that sometimes you can tap into things that opens doors, and we don't know what doors were opening, and sometimes we don't know how to close them properly, right? And things COVID and things and things and things come out. So come out on the other end. But it appears in this case that's, I didn't really pick up any of that. As you said, there were a lot of failures too. They were not always correct. Yeah, well, it's like

Ian  
you said too. Is like, once you start shaking up the narrative, once you start, like, bending people's worldview, they start getting really defensive. They start saying things, you know, you once you get just a little bit outside, or once you get a little bit into the fringe, they're like, oh, that's I got no

Stoney   
think about this. The ultimate goal was not to see if they had a submarine coming out of a base. The ultimate goal was to be able to kill somebody remotely. Yeah, okay, yeah.

Jason  
Brought that up. I

Stoney   
got some stuff on that one, but think of that's what I was trying to say earlier. What would the Populists think if all of a sudden there's a little base in Colorado somewhere, and you got, you know, 10 or 15 people sitting around killing people all the time. Who's to say they're not going to kill me? Yeah, what happens if the Biden crime family decided to use that to take out a presidential candidate? Right? You know, what is the what is the American public going to think about that? So that's why it's got buried deep, behind this door, behind that door, behind that door, because that was the ultimate goal, right? Not just being able to move one object from here to there, or being able to see this, or being able to see what's on Mars. They wanted to be able to kill people remotely, because then how do you prove who it was? You would

Jason  
never be able to, you never be able to prove it. Right? I mean, you would never the way our current jurisprudence works. There'd be no way to even,

Ian  
yeah, no, yeah. Because, especially if it's once again, I

Jason  
said, our culture doesn't want to go there. It's not there. So especially

Ian  
if you're able to make it look like veil, like a heart attack, you probably make it look like some kind of just like, quote, unquote. Now, I

Jason  
mean, I sometimes wonder, with price his heart attack, sometimes wonder, was that caused by someone on the other side reaching out, yeah, yeah, and taking him out, yeah? I mean, maybe. So who knows? You know that I'm not, I'm not discounting anything, right? I don't think we can. I think he was like 57 when, yeah,

Stoney   
he wasn't that old. Wasn't old. No, he was not necessarily

Jason  
mean anything, but, I mean, I'm just saying it's even

Ian  
further into the crazy like you get, is it like, once you start, once you start allowing the idea for that, it starts to get into, like, the really, the crazy territory, a little bit where you're like, it's a slippery slope, because now if, like, if that's a thing you're capable of doing, then it's like, well, I mean, who's to say? Then it starts to put into question a lot of like, quote, unquote, natural occurrences, you know, like, or things that feel random. It's like, was it random? Or was it all, like, a Yeah, like, I said, I guess, like, I said, slippery slope. But yeah, yeah.

Jason  
I mean, there's some of this stuff was, was. Yeah, was just outright, yeah, you know. And look and what surprised me, even now, they're still being questioned, of course, about Project Stargate. And I'm sure that 2017, not a long time ago,

Stoney   
because of the successes, is why they're still being questioned. Oh, exactly. Okay, if there was one success, somebody's going well about it, and can we manipulate

Jason  
that? You know, as I said, the the people that were involved in that program are still very much believe that remote viewing is a thing and it works, and it's a technique that can be learned, right? Anybody can do it, which, to me, would be fascinating. Be honest, they said there's a test you can take. I may even try to really do that and see about just trying it. Of course, see what I look if I find it, I'll let everybody know what Jason

Stoney   
the psychic warrior

Ian  
psychic warrior, next time, next time we we come to sit down and record Jason's like, that was a really good dinner you made last night. What are you talking about?

Stoney   
Hey, does your girlfriend know you went there? Yeah,

Ian  
exactly. Should you really have not gone to the gym?

Jason  
This is, like this Monroe, like this Monroe Institute. I was kind of, yeah, I went to their website and looked at their stuff. And it's like, it's pretty interesting, yeah, actually. And then they got a couple other private think tanks. I I think Edwin May, I believe he's at least the last I saw. I think he's got private funding from this Portuguese or, yeah, Portugal pharmaceutical company that you know basically, kind of doing some of the same stuff, right? He's but you know, a lot of these guys, you know, no ego. Swan is passed. He passed away in 2013 But Joe mcmonacle, he's still doing interviews. I highly recommend anybody that's curious about this go and in Google project, sargate and YouTube and just pull up all the stuff, right? Another, another podcast. I like plugging these guys because they are they do some good work. It's Mr. Methos, I believe, is another one. Did a really good job. He did a two part on this topic. Wow. Very, very thorough and very, very good. So if you really want to really get into the weeds with this stuff, you can do it. I mean, you know, as I said, and we try to provide what we call a 10,000 foot view topics, right? To let people know, look this stuff is out there, and it's pretty interesting, if you take a look at it, you know, go find this stuff. And maybe, just maybe, you might change your mind on some of these things, right? Or at least maybe be more open to it, yeah, so,

Ian  
but be beware, though it's probably some of these are a slippery slope,

Stoney   
definitely going down a rabbit hole. Once

Ian  
you get in there, you could be, oh, yeah, I just say it could open up your idiot. Maybe

Stoney   
it'll open up your conscience.

Jason  
You know, right now, you know some of the things I've been reading here, and is about, you know, you talked about the new consciousness is rising. What was the, you know, the Mayan calendar and representing a new a new age, a new way of thinking about things. Everybody thought it was the end of the world. The end of the world. 15

Stoney   
million Mayans disappeared overnight.

Jason  
Well, I don't know what happened to him over night. When? Do you know? When would we

Stoney   
used to know all that stuff? I just remembered that one quote. But

Jason  
I mean, I mean they literally, Mayan civilization Did, did just for whatever reason. They abandoned all their cities, right? And they left. But, yeah, it's

Stoney   
okay if they just left. There would have been a path, there would have been tracking, there would have been some place that they went. They disappeared literally overnight. Yeah,

Jason  
I don't that's, I'm saying their, their culture, just vanished. Just don't know what it wasn't

Stoney   
like 10 or 15 people right

Jason  
now. It's, it's definitely something happened, but, but, yeah, that's what I'm talking about. This, this new consciousness. I That's what I'm saying. You kind of get these theme of, of consciousness, universal, conscious. Another theme I picked up is sounds, frequent, frequent vibration. Yes, all these things, that kind of something. It's just amazing how they're all intertwined. Yeah, to some degree, I just thought that was. Yes, I just cool stuff. Kind of you look at this stuff and go, maybe there is a connection, right? And, you know, it's the challenge of trying to put all this stuff together, and that's what we do, yeah. So we try to bring good stuff to you all, and hopefully, maybe this might pick your interest, and maybe doing a little digging on your own, on some of this stuff, and read some books or watch some videos, or whatever the case may be,

Ian  
or conjure up your own conspiracy theories and let us know what you think get offended. Together@gmail.com we also have comment sections on YouTube at Spotify, where you can leave little comments there, be sure to like and subscribe wherever you can. That really helps us out. It really helps us out, inspiring our reviews, all that good stuff. Yeah, until next week. Thank you so much for listening. Bye, bye,

Jason  
Goodbye, everyone. God bless.

Stoney   
Imagine this. A psychic sits in the sealed room. Across the world, a hostage is hidden, a map, a pen, a blank mind, and then the location emerges, coordinates, shapes, details too specific to ignore. That happened, not in fiction, in the files, in the transcripts, in the now declassified fragments from Project Stargate. So the next time someone laughs about psychic spies, remember this. The military believed the CIA invested, and you just listened to the episode they never wanted you to hear. So if that chills you even a little, share this episode, rate the show and keep your ears open. We're not done here.