Retrospect
Retrospect
Human Resources In The Modern Age (feat. Meagan West) | Retrospect Ep.203
In this week’s episode we discussed how human resources is transforming in today's fast-paced, tech-driven workplace with a special guest, Meagan West. From remote work and AI in hiring to employee well-being and inclusive company cultures, we explore the challenges and opportunities shaping the HR landscape. Whether you're an HR professional or just curious about the future of work, this conversation offers valuable insights into what it takes to manage people in the modern world.
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Jason 0:01
Human Resources. For some, the phrase conjures up thoughts of compliance policies and paperwork. For others, it sparks images of workplace disputes, hiring freezes, or the gatekeepers of promotions. But today, the role of HR is undergoing a transformation unlike anything we've seen before. No longer just an administrative arm of business, HR departments are now at the very center of how organizations attract talent, retain employees, and adapt to an era defined by remote work, artificial intelligence and an ever changing workforce across many industries, human resource professionals are being challenged like never before to balance empathy with efficiency, people with productivity and culture with compliance. Modern technology is reshaping how workplaces recruit, measure performance and even monitor employee engagement. So the question is this, in today's fast paced and unpredictable world, is HR evolving fast enough to meet the needs of modern workers, or is it still held back by outdated systems and old perceptions? The answer may reveal not just the future of HR but the future of work itself. Welcome to
Ian 1:37
the retrospect podcast, a show people come together from different walks of life and discuss a topic from their generations perspective. My name is Ian, and as always, I'm joined by Jason. Hello everyone. Stoney, hello. Now this is a very big topic we have for today, and we have someone very special in the studio with us. We haven't had a guest in a hot minute. Yeah, it's been a while. And Jason, you know this person much better than I do. I would like for you,
Jason 2:00
well, I would like our our listeners to to meet Megan. Megan West, she is a an HR spent most of her her career in the HR world, and we thought this would be an interesting topic to talk about. And who better to to have someone who knows this like the back of her hand and can give us some insight. So
Stoney 2:26
you're, you're an HR consultant now, right,
Megan West 2:28
correct? Okay, yes, thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here. Yeah, why
Jason 2:33
don't you tell us about yourself a little bit.
Megan West 2:37
I've been doing HR basically since I left high school, and I didn't know it
Stoney 2:41
about six months ago, long time in an HR world, right?
Megan West 2:49
And I'm an expert already, yeah, but yeah, fell into it. Didn't say when I grew up, I want to be in HR. Just happened that way, and realized that I loved it and I was good at it, and so just kind of kept creeping along, getting promotions outside of organizations, and even found myself on the local HR Society of Human Resource Management, found myself on their board, and crept my way up to the top and giving back to the profession. It's been amazing, because I think HR is a thankless job at times, and you need your tribe. Definitely, sometimes you're on an island of your own, and so to find that tribe and to give back to that profession, it meant the world to me. And so I realized I didn't want to work for anybody anymore, because they have those smaller organizations who can't afford that full time HR, but they need HR in their corner, and that's what I'm doing, and I love it. It's a passion of mine to help others see their potential and the organization. So yeah,
Ian 3:53
that's awesome. Thank you again for having I
Stoney 3:56
think they're I can predict, knowing some things, this is going to be, at times, a spirited conversation. So please keep that in mind, this is not personal, but we all have experiences in this arena that are going to be some good and some bad, and I know personally, for me, it's a passionate thing, because HR, in the last corporation that I came from, failed miserably, and I am very passionate about that, so please don't if I get a little tone in me, it's not directed at you, but it is directed at I think HR is a tool to protect the corporation and has zero to do to help the employee other than a lot of paperwork. Yeah,
Ian 4:49
I think in some in some public corporations, that's how it is structured. I've been and like you said, you're coming from your perspective. I've come from a different perspective as well, where you know the play. Is that I've been it feels a lot more kind of that mediator, where I felt the safety of being able to go to the people in HR and be like, hey, like, I don't feel comfortable with x, y, z, and been able to actually be accommodated, whereas I know that some places don't always have that. And it is, you know,
Megan West 5:16
it definitely is a balance of protecting the organization, but also being a resource to the humans there. And yes, HR does get a bad rap. And the way I explain it to people, sometimes it's just like police, police, you know, sometimes people don't like them because they get in trouble with them, and so then they get this bad name of, I don't like them. Well, guess what? They're enforcing law, I'm enforcing policy. So someone has to be that.
Stoney 5:47
There's my point right there. The Corporation leaders, so they can sleep at night and are cowards, said that's all we can do, because that's policy. Instead of having balls and standing up and being men and women of true leadership, said, I need to sleep at night, he ran out of time fire his ass after creating an accident that I had a 3% chance of surviving and almost killing me instead of even asking me what I need, they fired me and because policy and statute says that's okay, they did that so they can sleep at night.
Megan West 6:36
That's an unfortunate situation, and I hate that for you,
Stoney 6:39
but that happens more often than just me. It
Megan West 6:43
absolutely does, and I hate that, and that's what it takes people like me to make sure you're leading and guiding with empathy, make sure you're not just being like, Okay, this is what the book says. Everything's so black and white. But are there other options, like, what else is out there? What kind of accommodations could someone have given you? Sometimes people look at others as a number in the system
Stoney 7:07
just winds up being a tool. When you want to remove somebody, you go to HR. What can I do to remove this person? You don't go to HR and find out. What can we do to keep these people? You go to HR to find out what we can do to remove them
Ian 7:25
in some scenarios. Yes, again, I've been, I've worked for some very great companies that have been in the opposite space of almost too much. I think accommodating where it's, you know, it's almost hard to fire somebody without a lot of, you know, concrete evidence. I
Jason 7:39
think you're ultimately, you're ultimately bound by the rules in which the organization is operating under. Now, I mean, yeah, look, can rules be bent? Right with enough pressure? Yes, they kill it. You know that? You know ultimately, I think in in Stoney case, I think that was, and I've said it all along, that if he would have been known the right people, right probably maybe could, could some accommodations could have been made possibly. But when you don't have that, and you're kind of at the mercy of the rule, you know, right? It happens. I mean, it's, it's just a sad it's a sad story. I hate that. What happened happened, but I don't know what you can, can do to fix it. I really don't, yeah,
Megan West 8:37
because you have also the opposite end of it. Sometimes HR is not even brought in, and people make decisions without hrs. And that's frustrating, because then you're coming in to clean up the mess,
Ian 8:49
or you get or you get pinned with the responsibility of it, okay,
Jason 8:53
well, I can tell you when I when I got rehired, I just forgot how much paperwork. That you have to fill out, you know, I had been working for, you know, over 30 years, and then all of a sudden, you you retire,
Ian 9:10
you take one year off, you take a year off,
Jason 9:15
you come back, and it's like, it's just like, Paper, paper, papers. Like, Gee, I forgot just how much.
Megan West 9:22
Back in the day, I used to tell people, when we did new high orientation, that stack of it's like a realm of paper, like you're gonna leave here feeling like you just purchased a house. Yeah, instead of me giving you keys to the house, I'm gonna give you
Stoney 9:35
keys. I'm glad we're in that conversation. What is all that paperwork, things you agree to that if you don't do you're going to lose your job. It all, it never, hey, if you do this, this and this, you're going to get a raise. It never tells you that, but it's it's a tool
Megan West 9:55
to get you out of there. It depends on what's in the onboarding paperwork, because a lot of them. Talk about what that what your career, you know, development and career paths look like. They'll talk about the open door policy if you have an issues and you need to come discuss things. So think about
Stoney 10:10
that. What's the open door policy? There's an open door policy if you feel like you've been sexually harassed. Okay, that's a positive that you want to create a safe place for somebody to come in and then that I agree in that situation, but there's no open door policy on I want a promotion, I want this or I want that. That has nothing to do with HR, nothing.
Megan West 10:32
Yeah, I can't answer for where you specifically worked and what I'm not
Stoney 10:36
talking about just my workplace. I owned a business, and I did things differently. For 25 years in my business, I was my own HR, and what I did in my business was took care of my employees. I I proved leadership. We did things. We had a daycare, we had a doctor's office and a wing of my office, and so awesome in case my employees needed help. They didn't have to burn time. You didn't have to use your sick leave to take care of a kid.
Megan West 11:07
Convenience in the busy world, that is definitely a perk in the 80s.
Stoney 11:11
Okay, this is supposed to be the 2025, and we still aren't offering these things. Oh, yes, some tech companies do, but that's not through HR, that's through that's what you're going to do when you get the job. Here, they have
Megan West 11:24
other organizations as part of the employee experience and employee engagement and total rewards. They do things like that. And I think it's great. I did a study on it over the summer, because I was speaking a lot on employee engagement, and it is interesting what people do, but it also changes over time, like it used to be, oh, you know, free dress Fridays that was like fun, but you've got to change up with the times. And so now it's, it's it's
Stoney 11:48
different. I did areas that experts agree in HR and areas that Experts disagree in HR, and the very first one that the experts agree on is employee engagement is critical, and I have a couple of quotes. Gallup research has a quote, engaged employees are more productive, more loyal and more likely to stay with their organizations. And then another one, who's an HR analyst, Josh Berson, said, organizations that actively measure and act on employee engagement outperform their peers in productivity and profitability, compliance and knowledge and legal knowledge is essential. Things that they disagree with is the value of HR metrics and analytics. And Josh Berlin again, said data driven HR is essential. Metrics help us understand attrition, engagement and performance. But Patricia Macklin, HR expert said HR is fundamentally about people and not numbers. Over reliance on metrics can undermine human judgment and nuance that's where they disagree. See, people are disagreeing with these statements where they agreed on the other statements. And so again, it just becomes, HR is an organizational culture. HR does not help the culture of an organization, the leaders, the managers, the supervisors and the employees create the culture. HR does not create
Jason 13:22
culture. I think that, I think that, though the data is showing that hrs are become, those departments, though, are becoming that for a lot of companies, I think a lot of leaders are and we look at, you look at the data as a whole, I think there's a lot of right now, a lot of companies that are basically HR, you handle it, you know, and they're kind of like dumping all that stuff on them. But
Stoney 13:46
then I would like to clarify on this, and I'm glad you said that, because this is a generational show. I am the boomer. Jason is the X Gen. Ian is the millennial. I don't know if you graduated six months. So that's, you know, I have a boomers perspective of this. That's even though I'm, I was still in the workplace until this accident at 60 years old. Well, 59 years old, I guess I'm still in the workplace, but that's my perception of it.
Megan West 14:21
Yeah, there's been a shift in HR 100% and a lot of it's going to that strategic HR business partner having their hands in a little bit of everything and understanding it. And so as you may think, that HR can't help with the culture. It does help drive the culture, because you are coaching and leading your team and your managers and your supervisors to have that shift you you have to empower them and educate them and give them those nuggets so they can because culture is It's everybody. Like how you say, safety is everybody, and yes, it does start from the top, but you can influence that. I. I give culture topics and speaking and training all the time on what that looks like, because I say culture is not just a poster on the wall, but it's it's in the everyday little details. It's in everything,
Stoney 15:11
okay, but HR is responsible at times for removing people, and I have a statement I want to throw at you. The truth is, too many workplaces would rather lose half their staff than hold one toxic leader accountable. I agree. I've seen that that falls onto HR, not doing, not doing their paperwork, not writing people up, not not managing, not having these meetings, not
Megan West 15:38
so it's up to whoever their manager is, whoever their supervisor is, they need to be held accountable to doing that. And so HR can come in and partner with them and say, Hey, where are you at with this person? What kind of disciplinary action Have you taken with them? Where's your documentation? HR can help support that and show you what that's like. But that supervisor needs to be supervising that employee. And so when we come in to help and partner with them, and we have nothing, it's like
Stoney 16:05
we're not talking about employee. We're talking about the leader, where HR would now fall under.
Jason 16:10
Well, oftentimes the leaders, depending on what organizations you're talking about, Olivia, in the private world, you would think leader is going to be somebody that's reporting to a board, you know, or right in government, then you're talking about someone that's appointed by a governor or mayor, so the only person they're really accountable to is that elected official. And you know, how well is that? How that works out?
Stoney 16:38
Well, I mean a statistic, and you're our resident statistic. 75% of employees have experienced some form of toxic leadership, yet only a fraction of these leaders are formally disciplined.
Jason 16:58
Well, as I said, it's who are these ultimate bosses? Who would they who they report to the people that appoint them? They're so far
Megan West 17:09
removed from, or not even on site exactly
Jason 17:13
they're unless you make the news, to be honest about the only time those people are you know that a governor or a mayor or board intervenes, it's like either the company is sinking really fast, oh, yeah,
Stoney 17:32
or what would have happened if my situation would have landed on CHANNEL NINE NEWS?
Jason 17:36
Exactly. I mean, it y'all just That's how those people are held accountable beyond that, as long as they kind of just keep the ship somewhat afloat and there's no scrutiny, they can pretty much do what they want to do. I
Ian 17:55
mean, in my in my context, in my context, specifically as like a supervisor, like middle management position, I have a manager, like, a direct boss, and there's even a boss above that person, yeah, and so I have a relations committee that I can go to and if I have any disagreements with my direct boss, and they're like, a grievance process. And there could be, there could be actions where, like, where that boss of mine could be displaced. But the problem is that if the higher up, even past that, if there's a good relation there, then that person will probably just get replaced, somebody somewhere else, which is, you know, that's and that, I don't think that's the relations committee on my, my part's fault. That's that's something that's even above both of us, that's like that you
Megan West 18:44
can't everyone's definition of HR is different. Everyone's experience with HR is different. And so what HR is designed for and what it is in different organizations is different. And sometimes HR wants to do those things to help the employees, but they don't have the support and the buy in, yeah, from their upper management. So their hands are tied with, this is my budget. This is what they're supporting me on. This is all I can do. And so then they even become disengaged, right as well. So,
Jason 19:15
or, I mean, HR, I mean, this all started back in the earliest, you know, during the Industrial Revolution, right? It's, it's called Personnel Management. It was basically designed to keep the company safe from lawsuits, keep the workforce compliant, grow, kind of do some basic things. It's now morphed into a whole bunch of other things now, because workforce has changed and just societies change, and different expectations are just present. Now that wasn't at a time when people were still employing 12 year olds. Yeah,
Ian 19:50
100 years ago? Yeah,
Megan West 19:52
certainly, Robin, you mean you mentioned the earlier, but HR wears so many hats, so many when people ask what I do? I'm like, Well, I'm a firefighter today, or I'm a lawyer, I'm a social worker, I'm an adult babysitter, like, it just the list goes on and on of like, what you do and what you have to keep up with, and it's a lot, and you can only do so much, but again, if you don't have the support coming down and you don't and then across, you have to learn to manage up, down and across. And that's something I've been really speaking on a lot lately, of what does that look like? Because it's very hard to manage up, down and across, if you only have influence and you don't manage them. So you can tell them all day long. Here's how you need to handle certain situations. I need you to document certain things. You can coach them to have good leadership qualities, but ultimately they don't report to you. So if you don't have their leader kind of helping drive that and support that, again, you're on the island of their own. So go find your tribe and know that you're not crazy. It's just a weird situation, a weird position that you're in in 2023
Jason 21:06
this is some interesting stuff. They say global employee turnover cost businesses an estimated 7.8 trillion on productivity. 60% of workers report that they're disengaged at their jobs, while four out of five employees say company culture is just as important as salary. And they said in a and right now, with the, you know, we're coming out of the remote work. Now, some of these stats were taken at the time of covid, a lot of people working from home, but they say one in three employees say they quit and forced to return to the office full time, really? Yeah, wow, yeah. It's
Stoney 21:53
actually one of the things I spoke to someone in HR that's in HR now and dealing with it. They said there was three super significant issues that they're facing at the moment. Number one, remote and hybrid schedule issues. Yeah, that was the number one. Number two is compensation. Many employers no longer give merit raises. You only get your two to 4% annual cost of living raise if you get that, if you get that, and that's all you can look forward to. People often leave jobs or job hop to climb the salary ladder, which is something I want to get to later, because in my term, my time, you didn't leave your job. Now these early millennials and Gen Z, they're hopping jobs every one to two to three years, all
Megan West 22:42
online, and you can, like, see where it's better. And
Stoney 22:45
number three, employee, mental health and will well being issues, that's the top three things, yes, that they're dealing with, right?
Jason 22:56
You said. It's very interesting to see how this evolves over time. Be very interesting. If I can stick yourself in a capsule and wake up in 50 years and see how this will
Ian 23:07
feel like anything to do, maybe
Stoney 23:09
that's what we got to call the show. Let's change it to the time capsule
Jason 23:13
in retrospect.
Stoney 23:15
And can't, can't we put this in the Smithsonian or something? Isn't there some tagline?
Jason 23:22
Millennials and Gen Z now make up nearly 50% of the global workforce.
Megan West 23:27
Yeah, you have five generations of workforce now. People are working longer, and then you're trying to mesh all these generations and like, like you said they're like, you don't leave a job. That's you were told the loyalty was there, yes. But now, ever since covid, people want to work from home, and they want this, like, work life balance and tick tock. And, as you know, shows these beautiful jobs of like, look at my work life balance.
Stoney 23:50
None of that's real,
Jason 23:51
exactly. And also we, and we talked about this on another episode about people taking their pets to work. Oh, yeah, some of the challenges people when they went home, and then all of a sudden, now they were leaving the house, they got, they have, they the animals having separation anxiety and stuff like
Megan West 24:11
that. We have all those new policies. And it's weird, because when I entered the space, what HR was in the policies, and then over the years, then all of a sudden, we need a social media what's a social media policy? Then we need to, you know, all these different policies that keep coming in, and how do you accommodate people, and how do you make everybody feel welcomed and warm and fuzzy? And now it's, I have these service animals. I need to bring a service animal, but then it's like, okay, but if I bring it is, is your whoever's working next year? Are they allergic to like, it's right, it's a whole thing
Stoney 24:40
I have. I have something to throw at you, Jason, something you just said the average cost to replace an employee. Entry level is 30 to 50% of annual salary. A mid level, like Ian just said, he's kind of mid level, is 150% of annual salary, and a senior level is 200 to 400% of the. Your salary to replace somebody that leaves? Yeah, that's
Jason 25:03
a lot. Some of these new, these, the younger workers now, you know these hybrid work schedules. That's an expectation. I mean, that's not like a while. It's a it's an option. No, there. It's an expert. It's an expectation. You they should be able to work from
Megan West 25:20
home, and they look online, and it's so easy to just scroll and swipe and see where can I work from home? And
Ian 25:27
so there's so many job like job sites and other services like that, where you can literally, just like, throw out a resume onto like, 100 different jobs in a very short amount of time.
Megan West 25:39
You can work in whatever state, too. Oh, yeah. Like, nope. I want to work from home. And I want to work for California, because their cost limits more and their salary ranges are more. And so I'm going to work right here, so you've got more they've got more competition. I
Ian 25:51
think that, like anything that involves people, anything that involves a large amount of people, yes, needs management, but also is going to is going to be difficult. You mentioned earlier about, like, what's going to shift, what's going to change in the future? I think the expectations and what I think everybody's gonna be worried. I think it's all gonna change in the future, but I still think that, like, I still think there's gonna be some level of HR, what was that
Jason 26:20
office in the house. What
Stoney 26:21
was that movie, where they lived in pods, in pods, in pods and pods
Megan West 26:27
and capsules. Where are jail brains?
Stoney 26:31
That was a movie. Where was it? Bruce
Jason 26:33
Willis, no, that was, that was this, like it was a, it was a where, in essence, they were like hooked into these into these chairs, their brains were hooked into, like a robot version of themselves out in the real world, and that's who actually interacted. And of course, they show these people how they really look at home. They're all sick and they can't hardly move, and they're all this and that and everything
Megan West 27:00
else. Speaking of pods, they have organizations who have nap pods. Yes, out you can go and take a little cat nap and come right back to work.
Jason 27:09
I can see that, because in some cultures, they do allow it. Oh, yeah, you know. And it's, you know, we'll
Stoney 27:15
see us the time Right, exactly. And if you're in Europe and they're close, they close shop, close everything, right for a couple hours during the hospital, you're expected to stay open till 10 o'clock too,
Jason 27:26
right? So people, people eat late right in Europe, I do. I did know, eating dinner at nine or 10 o'clock at night.
Ian 27:35
Let's be honest, even the culture has changed here since covid, like things don't stay open past 8pm anymore, at least not in the in our local context. I mean maybe somewhere else in the in the, probably the big, the bigger urban area. But I remember, I remember when, when Walmart was open, 24/7 it closes at 11. Now, in any coffee any coffee shop, yeah, I was like, that was, like, a big thing. You can go to Walmart whenever. But now that's what everyone
Stoney 27:59
was at two o'clock. No one was no one was there. And then stocking the show. I
Ian 28:03
remember I used to work at a coffee shop, and the coffee shop would close down at 10pm or in some parts of like downtown area, it was like 11 o'clock, a coffee shop would close down. Now, every single coffee shop locks the doors 8pm I'm like, the sun's not even down. Yeah, what? But you know, that's just a different thing, where it's like the times have changed. I think that's part of that's probably, I think, corporate reasons and money and whatever else you know so well.
Megan West 28:27
It's turnover. Yeah, they can't staff, right? Nobody wants to work, so they have to accommodate and shift their I have
Stoney 28:33
an interesting little statistic here, employee engagement, survey participation, how many times do you fill out a survey on what how you feel about your job? The Boomers was 30% Gen X was 40% millennials is 55 and the Gen Z error is 65%
Ian 28:55
Wow. Like how often they're filling
Stoney 28:57
just that you're even get that option.
Ian 28:59
Oh, I see. Okay. Yep. Interesting. And as as
Stoney 29:03
HR becomes more digitally, you know, what can we do and where can we put these numbers when
Ian 29:08
it's like we've already stated before, too? I think you're also we're trying to, probably trying to hold retention on some people and figure out why, why there's a high turnover
Megan West 29:16
rate. Yeah, you're truly trying to capture, how can I improve? But people know, because it's digital, they think it's not truly anonymous, so they're scared to be very truthful in their responses, because they feel they're going to get tracked and there's gonna be retaliation. So either A, they don't fill it out because of that, or B, they don't fill it out because they feel like, well, you're not gonna do anything with this information. Nothing's gonna change. So why waste my time? And so I was always the one of I loved it. I was like a nerd. Like, could not wait to dig into it. And like, Ooh, a survey. Please tell me the things. And then, like, I would, like, find out. It's like, okay, tell me more. And I used to find a way to do informal surveys, because I noticed people, if you could build relationships with them, you. They were more honest and open with you, versus giving them a blank sheet of paper or digital format of a survey. And so what I did was I remembered when I was young at my elementary school, if you were like this, all star student, you got to have pizza with the principal, and you got like, a little certificate. You got pulled out of class, you got to go sit down with her and, like, it was just an honor to go have pizza with the principal. Yeah. So I started this thing at my organization. It was pizza with the President. And most people, our president wasn't very approachable, because he was so busy on meetings and whatnot or going out in the market. And so I wanted him to be more approachable and people to know, like, he's not a bad guy. So what we would do is, once a month, somebody from every department got to come and sit down and have pizza with the President. And so cool. It was so neat because you had people across departments that never talked before, didn't know what other people did, so they grew an appreciation for what others did. But I got them to relationship build and see know them as a human being, like, what do you like to do for fun? Oh, what do you like to do for fun? Oh, I like to do that too. And once you relationship built and broke the ice, of like, okay, the President's just another human. And you are humans as well, then we started kind of, what would make your life better, what would make your job better? And they slowly started to open up. And, well, you know this, and you know that, and sometimes it would be a $10 fix, and it made a whole difference to them down there. And when they saw you came and did that, and they saw the action happen, it was just like, whoa. They loved it. So they really enjoyed, like, it was part of employee engagement too, because, like, oh, look, this person got, you know, to go and have this recognition, well, VIP moment. And then they got to go upstairs and sit down in his office. And it was just, it was really cool, but that was an informal survey, and I got so much out of that versus this typed up. Go submit your answers. And some people use it as a venting session anyway, and you're
Stoney 32:00
talking about engagement. Oh, yeah, back in the 80s and the 90s and I
Megan West 32:06
wasn't even born yet,
Stoney 32:08
just graduated. Okay, do you know what one of the worst things the owner of the business could do to create the most stress in his business. Employees, the employees of the business, drive his new boat
Ian 32:26
and park it. Oh, gosh, yeah,
Stoney 32:29
here. We can't get a 3% raise, but now you got this $200,000 boat, and that was back in the 80s. Oh yeah, that's your parking here, because you can't park it. You don't have a spot to put it at your home, so you're going
Jason 32:41
to park it here in his eyes. He deserves air in his eyes. He deserves all that he goes. I work hard,
Stoney 32:47
but now we're talking about engaging the employees and and giving them some ownership to be better in the company. With the 80s that started
Megan West 32:58
with the 80s, they also have like a the bag, the phone in the car,
Ian 33:02
yeah, I
Jason 33:05
had a bag.
Stoney 33:05
I know you. I still have every electronic pass that I've ever owned from the first pager, which was a pin, yeah, okay, and it did. All it did was beep like a like, it looked like a pen. When it went in your pocket and you went teeth and it didn't tell you anything. When it beeped, you knew to call the answering service and they gave you your message. I still have my first bag phone, my first brick phone, my first little blue Nokia. I have all of it. I've had a couple of friends that are in the movie industry say, We'll buy it all, yeah, so we can use it for props.
Ian 33:41
Yeah, that's awesome. I remember
Stoney 33:43
those, but that was something else
Jason 33:45
to get my bag phone.
Ian 33:48
I think, if I think, if I went digging, I still have my first iPhone somewhere,
Stoney 33:52
but the Miami Vice days, hey, oh yeah, phone, and then the brick phone,
Jason 33:57
good times.
Megan West 33:58
What is a brick phone? I
Ian 34:00
don't look like a big brick. It's like, it's like the, it's like a big, like the Zach Morris say, by the, well, yeah, like, okay, yeah, it's
Stoney 34:07
a big, like, a big brick. Yeah.
Ian 34:09
I know the brand name. That's what it's colloquially known as.
Jason 34:12
I've got something for you. Megan here. It says, according to this, some of this data here says 80% of HR departments now use artificial intelligence for recruitment,
Megan West 34:23
been using that. So it's the ATS the applicant tracking system. I mean, because everything's online, and people will apply for stuff, even if they're not qualified, no one has time to sift through all that, and so the applicant tracking system will help put them in the appropriate bucket.
Stoney 34:39
What is it? Indeed.com, says that's what they use, and they put words in it, and then all you have to do is put the words you're looking for, and it'll pull all the applicants with those. And
Megan West 34:49
that's why I train and coach people to if you're looking for a job, go find the JD the job description, and you match and mimic and make sure your resume has those keywords that's. In a well,
Stoney 35:00
you can use AI to do that. You can copy and paste that job description and then put your resume in it and say, make my resume match this job description in the best way possible.
Jason 35:12
Well, they say, yeah, the algorithms, they can screen chat bots handle interviews, predictive analytics can even forecast who's most likely to quit?
Ian 35:21
Oh, that's crazy. Yeah, it that's crazy. No,
Stoney 35:26
remember, Minority Report. Minority Report, who's going to commit a crime before they do it?
Ian 35:33
There's nothing falling I haven't had a, like, a job interview, and probably, gosh, it's been probably over 10 years now at this point, and I can't imagine not having, like, a sit down interview with somebody. That's just one of those things that, like, I feel like, even, even though I'm, you know, I'm in this weird middle bracket of millennial where it's like, I remember all, like, the kind of older ways how things are done a little bit so, like, I just feel like, I don't know if I could, I don't like that. I would rather just, like, sit down face to face, have some coffee with like, manager of some kind, because I know how, I know who I am. I know I can sell myself, but I don't know if I can do that over text. I feel like words, like, I don't know if i i know I'm charismatic enough, or if we sit down, I'm like, Oh, I know for a fact that if I'm not the if I'm not the perfect one that job, I can probably convince you. And because
Megan West 36:26
we haven't done that in a while, a lot of people do virtual stuff. People don't even know how to do an interview anymore. They don't know how to show up to dress what to say like. It's
Stoney 36:34
I wish I had it. I have a statistic on how many Gen Z, and I think it's 65% of Gen Z bring a parent to a job interview. They bring a parent. They bring a parent to the job interview. Interesting, yes, wow,
Megan West 36:53
they don't know. They don't know what they don't
Jason 36:55
know. And yeah, in their defense. I mean, well, I mean,
Stoney 36:58
look, there is no defense. There is no difference for that.
Jason 37:02
I've known people can't even cut the grass, so I mean, let alone
Stoney 37:07
more. So let's be real specific on that. Okay, when I was a young man, when you looked in the manual for your car, it told you how to adjust the timing. Now, the car manuals tell you not to drink the antifreeze or the battery acid?
Megan West 37:23
Disclaimer, yeah. Well, that's how policies get made. That's how somebody does something. And so you go back to our original like when we started, we talked about the new high orientation. You asked why it was that thick. Well, somebody did something. And to CYA, a policy had to be enacted.
Stoney 37:39
You have to think about this, okay, on the tube of Preparation H, it says, Do not take this orally, because you can, you know, someone called up Preparation H and said, I've eaten this whole tube, and my butt hole still hurts.
Megan West 37:51
Well, like the whole McDonald's thing with the coffee being hot, like coffee being hot
Stoney 37:56
HR joke, the guy goes to HR and says, Do I really have to follow these rules in HR, and the HR rep looks at him and says, You're the reason we have most
Ian 38:06
again, even I think the joke I've heard the joke before is like, if you see a warning sign for something that usually indicates that somebody did that thing, where it's like, it's why does this? Why does this warning sign say something so niche and specific, and it's like, you'd be surprised.
Megan West 38:22
It may never happen again, but in the event it does, and for why you gotta sign all those policies,
Stoney 38:28
you're the HR expert in the HR realm. According to the EEOC, the leading category of complaints is disability discrimination, the fastest growing one is age discrimination. 95% of employees over 40 have reported experiencing age discrimination in the workplace. And according to a recent report, Gen X and Boomers are aging. They also compromise a significant percentage of the disability claims. So these two, really, two are kind of hand in hand. Now, what do you think about that? Is that been your experience? How do you feel about that
Megan West 39:11
my experience, and I'm a very blunt and honest person, just my experience.
Stoney 39:15
Okay, all right, the rule of the show is, when we started, Ian, Ian, back me up on this. You have to be authentic and gender, yes, then that is 100% that's you let it out.
Megan West 39:27
If, in the event, you're let go or whatever, whatever adverse action that you feel has happened, you're going to be mad, you're going to be disgruntled, and people are going to be in your head. Well, you need this and you need that. You Well, it's probably so people will get in your head, and then you're going to go fill out this form, and you're going to check all the boxes of what, what you fit. So if you're over 40, check you're female, check, you're going to start like, it's because of that, and it's not necessarily because of that. And so that's what's been so frustrating in my career, is, um. Those EEOC complaints, they come because the person's disgruntled, not all of them, not all of them, but they're disgruntled, and they just want to fight. And so they just, well, I'm going to go do this, and I'm going to sue you, and I'm going to go this and it, and then employers have to spend so much money fighting that it wasn't that, like here, it was the performance, or it was this, or it was that. I mean, one time I had to do a I'm trying to be politically correct, but it's like I had to do randoms. And I remember this one time I had, I didn't pick the randoms. I sent the list to the clinic. The clinic sends me the list back to these people were selected, and that was to again, cya, that's what you learn in business class. I and in HR, you always want to see why. And I it was always, I never wanted to say, I cherry pick my randoms, and I got the email list back to me, and that can show my paper trail my email list. Well, I had one person who failed, and it was because they took their sons Adderall. And so, of course, I had to let said person go, and I won't say if they were male, female, whatever, but they literally went and checked all the boxes of what you know could be discriminatory, and said, Well, I got cherry picked because I'm this, this, this, this, and this right had nothing to do with that. It was truly a random like, how like, and so that's just one case, but it's like, Yes, I can see disability. When people get older and they're, you know, things happen that they can't perform their job duties. And if you go through the whole reasonable accommodations, if they need accommodations, if they can't do stuff because they're disability, they they may go, people just reach for strong, you know, throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks. Unfortunately,
Jason 41:47
some people look into to just get rich. I mean, you know, I mean, let's just, and I'm not saying all people are like that, right? I mean,
Megan West 41:54
truly are. But unfortunately, out of all the ones I've ever seen are not valid. And so just like we started this off, you have you feel some type of way about HR, well, because of all the cases I've had at EOC, and I truly knew that that wasn't the case. But again, I'm not saying there aren't organizations that you know. Yeah, they need to be. You need to look and see what's going on with them. But yes, that's just my experience.
Jason 42:22
Well, I got some industry trends here. They say the global human resources tech market is projected to reach 99 point 4 billion by 2030 75% of organizations are recruiting for remote positions. Oh, yeah, the average time to fill a job opening is 42 days. Hmm, that's interesting, right? 58% of HR professionals cite employee experience as their top priority. 69% of employees say they'd work harder if appreciated. Of course, companies with highly engaged staff report, 21% higher profitability. 85% of HR leaders view data analytics as critical to talent strategy. 89% of HR professionals believe diversity inclusion improved team performance. 88% say there are critical priorities, and 51% say D and I is their top hiring focus. I'd be very curious where they pull some of these numbers. Yeah,
Stoney 43:31
I'm disagreeing with a number of those. Yeah, yeah. 70%
Jason 43:35
of candidates say that candidate experience reflects how much a company value, its values, its people. Only 39% of HR leaders feel their organizations are on track with digital transformation and Megan, you might be able to, you know from your past, you might be able to to provide some input on that. Remote work boosted productivity by an average of 13% during the pandemic. 64% of employees feel workplace culture needs improvement, and 72% of HR leaders say internal mobility is key to retention. And then 55% of employees favor flexible hours. 90% of HR leaders invest in employee well being in 65% site change management as a major challenge. Yes. So you think on that,
Stoney 44:34
I think some of those statistics came from the same people that the CEO of Cracker Barrel is she says that it's been an overwhelming positive experience. I don't believe that they've lost 20% of their value. So I think they're giving her some of those things. Yeah,
Jason 44:51
I think there's a I mean, unfortunately, when you start pulling some of those daily Mass CEO or something, pulling some of this data from. It, you know, where they're pulling these numbers from, I would venture to say, you know, diversity, inclusion, I guarantee, is probably more heavily in the northeast, maybe on the West Coast, in the South and in the Midwest, maybe not as
Ian 45:15
much. Again, I still think, depending on what what company you're talking about, and what spheres, yeah, exactly, I would say that those numbers track even for our location, for some depending on what workforce you're talking about. I mean, basically, yeah, the big thing that I heard that was really impressive, that I think is very true, is talking about the whole appreciation factor, yes, like the once you have, like, people are willing to stay when they feel like they're appreciated and accommodated in some matters. But like we said before, it's also hard, because everyone is different. People are as diverse and as different from the next person, and it's hard to accommodate everyone sometimes.
Megan West 45:58
So out of all that, there's a lot I could talk about each thing, but I wrote down two things atta boys and change management. So when I talk about the first one, which goes to the appreciation, everybody's motivated differently, and everybody needs to see, send and receive appreciation differently. Somebody,
Stoney 46:21
everybody has a different currency, yes, not necessarily money, but like you said, attaboy,
Megan West 46:25
find out what makes people tick, what they tick. So some people are going to stay because you throw money at them, right? I need the money. Some people are going to stay because of their leader, and a lot of people leave because of their leader, yeah, sometimes you just need to verbally say, Wow, you did a good job. When you did this. It did this, and because of this, like quantify it and do it in front of others. People are so quick to, unfortunately, reprimand people in front of others, which you should never do, praise in front of people and you reprimand in private, but we
Stoney 47:02
did a lot of that discussion on that leadership episode. I listened to it. Okay, great. You did awesome.
Megan West 47:09
Yeah, I wasn't born yet when y'all did it because, you know, but it was one of your earlier ones, and it was really good. The leadership topic, no appreciation and sometimes it's just a verbal sometimes it's a, you know, highlight them
Ian 47:26
in my current context, at the end of a staff meeting, when we have everyone around the table, the very last thing we do is something called high fives. And a lot of times it's like us in the upper management position being able to point out and say, You did a great job on that thing this week. High five to you. You did wonderful on XYZ. Or a man, that thing, that the fundraising thing, or whatever it is you did was, or I saw the hard work you did, like, just like little things like that, little appreciations. When we're all in that, we're all here, we've all talked about the calendar, the schedule, the stuff the very end, the
Megan West 48:00
wins. Well,
Stoney 48:02
there's a leadership quote that says, Praise in public, scold in private. And it's important,
Megan West 48:09
it is, but it's so little, but it goes a long way. People want to know if they're busting their butt for you, and they're doing this thing, and they worked on the project, and you're like, oh, okay, you got this in in time. No, go a step further and tell them how much you appreciate them, and because then you're going to diminish their engagement and their morale, and the next time, they're not going to they're going to start slacking, and they're not going to give as much effort. Sometimes it's just verbal appreciation. I used to tell my managers all the time, they were so quick to write people up for what they did wrong, and that does something to an individual. When they see they're being wrote up and it's going on a piece of paper or it's electronic and it's going in their file. Eventually, when they see all these bad things going in their file, per se, it really does something to them. But if you could turn around and do like, commend or note to a file or whatever, and know that, okay, we're not always gonna talk about the bad stuff. We're gonna talk about the good. Talk about the good stuff. It goes so
Stoney 49:04
far. Let me throw something at you that was one of the things if my manager, I required you to keep a daily log of your employees good and bad, if you came to me with nothing but bad on an employee, you were just as much in trouble because you weren't doing your job. You weren't being a leader, you weren't helping you weren't giving them paths to redemption. You weren't doing those things. So even from I have, I still have locks from back back in the day, that every good thing you did, if you did something bad, it got put down in that log so that when I came to you, hey, look, you know, you're in trouble today, but I want to tell you, look at these good things you did here. What? What can we do to focus on these things? We were
Megan West 49:52
conditioned, in my opinion, since we were young, to appreciate that, like when our parents would just be like, Oh, my God, you did so great. Or you, when you went down the slide, you did. So good, or you did so good at that basketball game, even at school, if you did great, you got a sticker, or you got a this and, like, it made you so proud. And so as you get older, like you don't get that, but I feel like we're conditioned, like we still want people want that. And I remember when I was president a year ago, on one of the boards that I was on, I noticed people were doing great things, but they would never share it, and
Stoney 50:23
so I were president of the board while you were still in high school. Yeah?
Ian 50:28
The funny thing is,
Jason 50:29
she's a high achiever.
Ian 50:32
I feel like a lot of this really boils down to, like, whether it be in a relationship or friendship or workspace, people, people People want to feel wanted. Yes, that is human desire that
Megan West 50:46
they're aligning with the mission and then their goals. Means,
Ian 50:49
like, even, even if you boil it down, even more is like, if you have, whether it be a co worker or a boss, a lot of times it means more from a boss, but to to, like I said, even if it's a friendship, even if it's a relationship, a human a human desire that I think is across the board, is that people want to feel wanted. I want you to be here. You're important enough for me that I want you to be here, and I'm gonna let you know in some capacity. And like you're saying, If you keep saying, like, oh, this bad thing or this bad thing, it's like, well, I don't think you want me
Megan West 51:16
here. Yeah, if you do, I'm just so horrible. Why don't you do then why don't you make me believe it? And then they think they're in a toxic environment. Yeah, they're gonna leave because my boss hates me, yeah. So, so back to what I would do with the board. Some people don't know how to share their wins or share the great things they're doing, because they're humble and they're quiet, and so I used to have them come with three A's. I want you to show up and on your agenda items. I want to see your accomplishments, your action items. And what do you need assistance with? So when you came with your accomplishments, like, what are you doing? Like, what like, Let's all celebrate. Then it was like, what action items are you working on? But then assistance, like, how else can somebody here assist you? And I think the sharing of the accomplishments, like, it's so important, let's just not always get down to brass tacks in business of like, what's going on? But it again, the hotter boys and the sharing.
Stoney 52:01
What does a true leader do? A true leader when it's something good happens, blames the team when something bad happens, blames themselves,
Megan West 52:13
just for
Ian 52:14
my sake. I want to hear it again. What were the three A's? You said, Oh, um,
Megan West 52:18
accomplishments, action items and assistance. I remembered you get a sticker at the end of this we're doing. So I
Stoney 52:27
was just thinking I was going to get a participation trophy. So another
Stoney 52:32
thing I want to bring up I talk that I wrote down was change management. Oh yeah, Jason, this is huge. HR. Is having to be really involved in change management, and what does that look like, because things are constantly changing and shifting, and especially with AI, how can we partner and support and embrace change and champion change? Because a lot of people can't handle change, and especially certain generations. I won't name names or labels, but they're like, things are this way, and I'm just gonna keep it. They don't know how to embrace change. And you know the whole if it's not broke, don't fix it, but you have to. If you're not changing and staying up with you're going to be left behind in the dust. And so how do people embrace change?
Stoney 53:14
But you see, here you go, you and you took that shot at me, and I accepted all of a sudden from me not but hey, then you go to the new generations. Hold on. Hear me out. Now, you go to the new generations, who change every 15 minutes. Okay, so you go from one extreme to the other, you know? And it's like you go in a week period of time. Now I need a mental health day. Now I need this kind of a day. Now I need that kind of a day. And where
Jason 53:47
do we strike the balance? I'm going to kind of play a little, a little devil's advocate here. Now you know about, you know, praising and doing all these things to try to make people feel good. There is a problem in our society that everyone has a trophy at the end of the day. And I'm wondering if we're actually doing more harm in the long term than we're actually
Stoney 54:17
helping with participation trophies. Yes, we've done irreparable damage.
Jason 54:22
I worry about that unfortunately. Well, I should say unfortunately. I think this is an area that you kind of walk the tightrope on, because I think, yes, you need to, for morale purposes and to make people feel welcome that you're a part of the team, that you're you're wanted here, all these things, I think, is important at the same time, we have an expectation, and if you don't meet that, are you still being rewarded? But see, here's
Stoney 54:58
where we reward the teams. Are losing. If you reward a team for winning, it's not a participation trophy, right? Because they won, because they won, but when you give the losing team a trophy, you're not teaching them anything, right? And I think that's the difference.
Jason 55:14
That's what I'm saying. I think there's a tight rope you got to walk because, you know, I think in times past, in Stoney, in your era, and even in mine, to a degree, it was a very much a you either one of your loss, that's right, you know, that's just the way it was. Try
Megan West 55:33
harder next time. Yeah,
Jason 55:38
I think as my generation became parents. They experienced that in the past, and they didn't want their children to experience that. And I think that's where it began, the it's like we've seen before, the you know you're you're going to get rewarded regardless. And I think unfortunately, now we've reached a point where, how do you even motivate people anymore.
Stoney 56:02
It's coming, and that's the statement, hard times create strong men. Strong men create easy times. Easy times create weak men. Weak men create hard times. We're in that weak men error because we're not teaching our people men, women. And it's a statement that says men, but it's everybody, right? We're in the weak person state right now because we have made those changes. We've done the participation trophies. We've made life so easy for
Ian 56:30
people. And sometimes that's I think sometimes that is a I think it's a good thing, because I think I love the fact that I don't work in a job right now where I have to grind away for 30 years hating my life and then just to eventually retire one day like that, is, that is the place that is the place where my grandparents and my parents came into, I'm not meaning to out anybody here, that's, that's what I'm saying. Is like, that was my grandparents generation. That was my parents generation. A lot of times where, like, you had to just suffer through it in silence. And I, I'm now afforded the ability to say, I don't think I want to do that, and I'm able to, like, work in a place where, like, I enjoy what I'm doing, and I do have like, there is probably some participation award in some capacity that like has enabled me to be in this space that like. So I think I, I'm I think we've said this on this podcast, ad nauseam, that there is a, there is a middle ground between a lot of this stuff. I feel like absolutely no appreciation at all is not the answer. Appreciating everything, regardless of wins or loses, is not the correct answer. There's a balance for everything. And I think, I think that, like, there's this, this middle ground of, like, I think I have worked in places where my boss has been able to sit down and say, Hey, bud, you really dropped the ball on that and we got to step it up. And I'm like, Yes, sir, you're right. I that was on me, and I'll fess up to it, but at the same time, be able to sit down in front of a whole staff and go, you really knocked out the park this time, right? It feels good. I could say,
Stoney 58:01
had a boss that would say you did a good job. Get a good night's sleep. I'll most likely fire you tomorrow.
Ian 58:08
And how unfortunate is that?
Megan West 58:11
Yeah,
Ian 58:13
that's no good. No, no, boy, no. I mean,
Stoney 58:15
it's and that's the truth.
Ian 58:17
And I 100% I the
Stoney 58:20
thing is, that's why I was doing a good job.
Ian 58:23
That's why I think it's almost speechless, because I know you're not lying. And don't get me wrong, I've been in, I've been in jobs like that as well, where it was very much, it was all performance based, and if you did not reach x amount of numbers of things, you got a write up, and it went in your file, and there was no and I was like, Man, I I'm I'm not getting any joy from this work at all. In fact, it's kind of making me depressed to go into work every day. Horrible person, not even I'm a horrible person. It's like, no matter how hard I try, it will never be enough. And that's not a good feel. That's not a good headspace to be in. Well, the
Jason 58:59
reality is, it never is going to be enough, because you got to keep it going right,
Stoney 59:05
right. And I hate to say this from the accident, I felt that way every day. That's hard when I lay my head down every night, that's how I feel that will never be good enough for life, they
Jason 59:16
say. OSHA estimates, 83% of US workers experience work related stress, with work being a significant stress source for 65%
Stoney 59:27
they say and they say stressed. And I found this, stressed employees take an extra seven days of sick leave due to stress every
Jason 59:36
year. Wow, yeah, they said that. Are not thrilled. Yeah, stress is linked to 120,000 US deaths annually.
Ian 59:43
Wow. Yeah, wow. That's
Jason 59:47
just what it is. They said workplace health programs, and you're starting to see a lot of companies offer mental health and those kind of things. They said the return on the investment is $15.60 saved per $1 Dollars spent reducing absenteeism and healthcare cost. But I'm telling you what's going to be interesting as AI advances and as jobs disappear, yeah, what are people going to do? Right? What are people going to do? I think I don't know how that's going to play
Ian 1:00:22
out. I I speculate that things are going to go like I said. Things are going to probably get far worse, and then we're going to probably hit this moment where it's going to plateau, and I think it's going to it's going to shift
Jason 1:00:32
again. It's going to take a paradigm shift. I mean, about what I'm
Ian 1:00:37
talking about, like the AI space, I think there's going to be an over reliance on it, and then we're going to go, this isn't the thing. And then we're going to move away from it and go back to real people. I think there's gonna, there'll be this shift where, I think we're currently doing that, where it's like, there's a heavy reliance on AI, and then it's gonna get, I think it's gonna get even more. And then there's gonna be a moment where it's like, man, everything feels a little sterile. And then there's not, and people are going to want people around again, I think, and then it's going to shift back in a different
Stoney 1:01:04
direction. It and I did some analytics here, and I found out that a toxic manager cost an average company $1,020,000 per year, where a good manager gains $1.1 million a year. For that apple. Yeah, a swing of over $2 million crazy. Think about that. Oh, yeah, and that's in retention, that's in people, that's in everything you can imagine. That's insane to me. You were
Ian 1:01:40
going to say something, yeah,
Megan West 1:01:42
to your AI point, like, I could talk. And so we've seen it before where, like, machines are getting rid of people, and then you have, like, you know, answering machines are getting rid of the front desk receptionist. So we were already seeing that shift, and we're gonna continue to see it. AI is gonna take away some jobs, and it's also going to shift what college and certifications look like. But then it's going to create, in my opinion, the AI department, because you're going to need people to manage it and the policies, and what does it look like? They're already teaching AI at LSU. I've talked to students. They have aI classes. And so I'm taking classes for taking class specifically for it. And so again, if you're not getting there, but you still have to have that human element to it. And so something that they say always, and Sherm in Johnny Taylor would say it. He's the CEO. He says ai plus H i, human intelligence equals ROI. And so you do, there's a lot of things you have to have that human touch. Because, yes, I can go chat GPT something all day long, but I gotta be able to know, is it hallucinating? Is it like, what's going on? Where's the data coming from? So you do have to have that. I remember two weeks ago, I went to the doctor, I had a little bump on my foot, and I'm like, Oh, my God, I'm getting old. What is this bump? Is it cancer? Like, you know, so me and chat had a conversation about it. It's like, okay, what does this bump? It could take your foot. Nobody was like, Okay, you need a podiatrist. Then I was like, Okay, well, this is my insurance. Here's where I live. Give me, you know, who should I go to based on the reviews? Okay, so when I get to the doctor, and I was like, Hey, by the way, chat told me to come see you this bump, I already know what it is. It's a cyst. And, yeah, so basically I did his job, and he was like, he's like, Yeah, I feel sorry for the doctors that spent years and money becoming doctors, because unfortunately they're going to start losing, he said, except for the surgeons. Like, well, yeah,
Stoney 1:03:38
all the doctors in college now are using AI to pass their test. If this wasn't a good time to start eating healthy and get healthy, this is it right now, because they remember we talked about that while back, Harvard did the study that said and they did three different versions of it, but the people that used it to research and the people that used it 100% weren't retaining
Ian 1:04:03
any of it. But the funny thing is, like, like, I have insider knowledge and, like, just so that way, you know, like most hospitals have like, a computer that has, like, specific it's not Wikipedia, but it's like Wikipedia that has all the information you want to know. So the amount of times your doctor, and I don't mean to scare anybody with this, the amount of times your doctor will go, your doctor will go there and just like, click it away on a computer to go, like, what is this? And look in this database. Is more has been doing this for decades now, and they're
Megan West 1:04:29
talking about the elements being specific to industry, so it doesn't muddy the water with research and facts. So like industry having their own LLM,
Stoney 1:04:37
it's the same thing engineers. Engineers cannot remember everything in their head, what they're taught. And it's the same thing with doctors, how to go find the information. Yeah, that's mostly what your AI just is another tool to help you go find theory. What's the weather like today? It's kind of the same thing. It's just you're being taught how to find it more conveniently. That's what.
Megan West 1:05:00
They say the doctors and lawyer they're practicing.
Stoney 1:05:04
I got one to throw at you before we continue, is, I do feel like that's
Ian 1:05:07
what I'm talking about. Like it's a human element. Is that you can go, you can go to chat GBT and say, like, what's this problem? That it can probably diagnose you. But there's also something about like, having a human care for you, in a way, and be like, you know, I'm not saying this is, like, the end all be all but like, having someone that is a professionalist field that can, like, be there and tend to it, and like, yes, there's a
Megan West 1:05:30
difference. Gonna give me the steroid shot or the MRI or things, yeah,
Jason 1:05:36
until the robots can do it on the robots,
Stoney 1:05:39
I want to throw one your way. All right, this thing now, within California and some of these other states with this mandated 15 to $20 minimum wage, how is that affecting the HR world right now? Okay, I caught her off guard. I knew that
Ian 1:06:01
subject because I think the same thing I've been discussed here before about trying to increase the minimum wage to, like 10 or something dollars or more than that. And it's like,
Stoney 1:06:09
how does HR handle that one?
Megan West 1:06:11
It depends. I mean, if you have an organization who is across the board, then you just kind of, I mean, I've worked in organizations like that before, where you overhear their cost of living is more so they have higher wages versus over here, and you just budget accordingly. But that's what I was saying earlier, is, well, if I'm smart, I'm going to work remotely. I'm going to go work for somebody in California, because they're going to pay at a higher rate, even though I'm live over here and so, but it happens to like the small organizations who can't afford that.
Stoney 1:06:42
Well, like McDonald's, who can't afford that, what they did was they laid off people and put robots and AI and kiosks and things like that in there. So what does that do? How do you retain people that would be hrs department in retention, right? Well,
Megan West 1:06:58
that's why people have so many options now to go look, and they're like, Well, I'm not going to work here for this. Going to work here for this, because I can go work here for that. And so it puts those people who then will, I can't afford this, you know. So it just, it puts people's backs against the wall. But HR aside, I also feel like, I mean, our minimum wage is horrible. Like, yes, people can't survive on that so then you have the whole like, Alice population issues, and then you have the whole like, you know, they need assistance, but then they reach a threshold where they can't get assistance, and then it's just this vicious cycle.
Stoney 1:07:32
But the minimum wage is not designed for people to survive on it's designed for high school kids to go out and get into the workforce and not be paid peanuts if you're trying to survive on that, that's your choice, that you need to go somewhere else and find a real job. That's for entry level, that's for part time, people, students, kids, to
Megan West 1:07:56
go out and I, I know some folks who can't, who just that's, you know, meeting people where they're at is something I always talk on and I'm trying to be polite, yes, but some people can't, like, I have a best friend and her sister pushes buggies at a grocery store, and that's all she can do. That's all she'll ever be able to
Stoney 1:08:16
do. Well, being polite is fine. Just remember our email for the show is get offended together@gmail.com
Ian 1:08:24
I always use the term diplomatic, diplomatic,
Ian 1:08:26
diplomatic,
Stoney 1:08:28
polite, diplomatic, but we also offend people regularly on this show. So,
Megan West 1:08:32
and I guess I've learned working in HR, everyone is offended, and so I have to constantly go in and it's like the right way, and somebody gonna get offended, or somebody gonna harassment. Oh, like, what does that look like? But yeah, so it's like some people, yes, they will stay in that, but also it's because they don't believe in themselves. I've seen folks on on the job, and I will go and try to talk to them, because their boss won't go talk to them, because I'm trying to teach them and coach them to be better leaders. And so I'll go talk to those individual hourly workers, and I'm like, Hey, don't you want to go to that next level, don't you? And so I remember this one guy, his name was Brian, and it took two or three years where he did not believe in himself. He felt if he tried to go the next level and he couldn't do it, he would just be fired. So he was content where he was at making the money he needed his job. And so instead of taking a risk, I'm gonna stay where I'm at. And nobody went behind him and empowered him and believed in him and proved to him that he could. But I did. I, as HR, would pull him in, and I noticed that I would pull him in an office. Every time I'd see him, I'd see him, I'd plant little seeds, plant little nuggets, and finally, one day he came, Miss Megan, I'm gonna do it. You think I'm ready? And I've been telling him for three years, Brian, you've been ready. You know this. You've got this. But his own fear got in the way.
Ian 1:09:57
It's like you said before, there's something. About the risk is like, I'm comfortable. I can, I can. I'm doing okay here, and if I rock the boat and lose this man, I'm going to be real upset with myself. But I can. I've been in that same boat. Might not
Stoney 1:10:14
see that today. Are are okay with starting over. I dread having some go somewhere and completely start over.
Jason 1:10:22
Well, younger generations are a little bit malleable, and they're the way the world they grew up in, versus the world that you grew up in. Even I grew up in, I just think their brains process change better, because there's
Megan West 1:10:41
everything's constantly changing, right?
Jason 1:10:46
It was pretty static, right? I would venture to say, I mean, you kind of knew you can look 510, years down the road and go, yeah, it's gonna look pretty much what yeah, I'm seeing here. I
Ian 1:10:56
think it's also a loyalty thing. Yes, we won't that's a whole other discussion for another day, but think a majority of that's loyalty is like, I don't I'm here to get a paycheck, and that's all I'm here for. And it
Megan West 1:11:06
also goes back to your resume. You're right, because people are going to ask, Oh, you job hop. You switch a lot, yeah. And so people like, oh, I need to stay here a little longer so it doesn't look like I just constantly leave, because then they're gonna think I'm not loyal. I'm gonna up and leave
Stoney 1:11:19
right? And now that's the norm. Yeah, oh yeah, cancel culture,
Ian 1:11:24
yeah. I think, like I said, I think a majority of what I've seen is like, I'm here for a paycheck, and then the second they receive any friction, they're like, I'll go somewhere else. I'll get a paycheck somewhere else. And it's like, okay, you don't have to. And it's like, no, I'll change right now. And it's like, you could stay
Megan West 1:11:38
here. Some people also don't know how to do CBAS call speed if they're analysis. And they also want instant gratification, 100% So case in point, had an employee who I'm leaving, I'm leaving, I'm gonna go move to Tennessee. They're offering me all this extra money to go because I need the money. It was about the money, yeah. But if you calculate cost of living, plus your insurance, plus this, plus that you're gonna be making less money. They couldn't see the forest from the trees. That's all they could see. Is my annual salary was gonna be more. Or you have situations where people get in a situation like, I don't like my boss, there's this I'm leaving it's toxic, instead of working through it and seeing like, was there something else there underlying, or did you need to look in the mirror? Oh, and that's
Ian 1:12:19
one thing we've talked about the show too, that I think is like the amount of people that I think cannot and will not admit that they might be wrong. And it's a big thing. It's like,
Megan West 1:12:29
I tell people all the time, sometimes you have to go backwards to go forward, but people think they have to just keep going forward and forward and forward. But sometimes you have to go backwards to go forward.
Stoney 1:12:38
I agree with Ian. I think when, people are wrong, they should admit it. If I ever was, I would that
Ian 1:12:44
will never happen. There's a lot of people that will sit there and they will. They even, whenever you provide facts incorrect, yeah, they will, they will. They will double
Megan West 1:12:53
down. You can show the video, and this you in the video right here, doing this thing on this day,
Ian 1:12:58
straight to your face, lie to you. And you're like, Yeah, I'll never forget the one of the first jobs that I had out of high school. I I worked there for like, a full calendar year, and it was like, stocking shelves, and it was a great job right out of high school, maybe some great money. And I'll never forget all the people that I was working working with, the managers, supervisors, co workers. I was leaving that job to take a pretty significant pay cut for the next job opportunity that I had in the field that I wanted to work in doing, like, graphic design, film photography, sound engineering, for for bands and like, like the whole the sphere that I wanted to work in so, so bad. And I knew that I was not gonna be getting paid as much, but I knew it was gonna give me, like, Great hours behind all the equipment that I wanted. I was gonna be super happy, but, but that was the thing, is that I was like, when people asked, they were like, oh, yeah, so you're gonna be making more, more money out there. And I was like, Well, no, I'm actually, I'm making, I'm gonna be making less, yeah, by a pretty significant margin. But at the time, I was like, I'm still, I was still my parents. I was like, I was paying my dad, you know, money here and there for utilities or whatever it was at the time. And so I was like, even with the pay cut, I can still afford gas and the money all that stuff. And I was like, so it's still, it's gonna be okay. And they're like, but why? Why would you pass up like a promotion here. When I was, like, it wasn't about that, but, but, like, I said that some people are just so number go up, and that's what I want. And it's like, well, you know, sometimes there's a there's more, more here, you know, so. But anyways, was anything else we want to touch on before we land the plane?
Stoney 1:14:40
No. Megan, do you have any speaking of landing the plane? Oh, I may have something coming for you, Mr. Pilot. Oh, no, I have something coming for
Ian 1:14:50
you. Threaten me with a good time.
Stoney 1:14:51
Um, just put a little bug. Okay, here working on something. Love that. Well, Ian wants to be a pilot.
Ian 1:14:59
Oh. Oh, a little bit there. I'd say it's a little good aspirations cooking up, so I'm working with it. But, yeah, do it day one or one day. Do it right now, right? You're right. It's just the big thing, like with everything, it's money. It's a big it's a big commitment to get the licenses and to get all the stuff, and I'm trying to get some money set aside, so that way whenever I do want to jump in. I'm not, because once the money runs out, they cut you off. And I want that to happen where I'm halfway through the process and they're like, I'm sorry. Yeah, right, right. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Megan, this has been
Megan West 1:15:34
great. I know that HR sometimes gets a bad rap, trust me, I know that I oh yeah, in my role, you have to get thick skin. You have it's there's been days where I'm like, why am I doing this? This is very difficult, but I learned that to have empathy. Empathy is what a lot of people lack. And if you can go in and know that they're humans and talk to them if you were in their shoes, or meet them where they're at, it goes a long way. And so that is one thing I've learned. Yes, there's black and white and there's that gray area, and you do have to think about what's in the best interest of the employer, but also you have to think about employee. And not everybody does that in HR, but that's the cool thing about where I'm at now, is I, I bring that to the clients that I work with. I bring that when I'm doing trainings and I'm only one person, and so everybody can't have an HR that is like that, but it should be where it's for the employee. And I know that's why I got into it. I know the Lord put me in this space for the reason of you know, planning those seasoned individuals, making them feel important, not making them feel like, oh well, you just let me just, you know, get you off of here and just get rid of you. You're just a number, and it's not there. People are human beings. And again, if you have empathy,
Stoney 1:16:55
it goes a long way. The title of my book I'm writing about my experience is Battle of the mind. Did they think I was just going to lay there and die, because it would have been better for everybody had I just died that day? Oh, that's horrible. It
Ian 1:17:09
would have been better for probably them, but not everybody, yeah,
Megan West 1:17:13
but that's how I feel. Yeah. I hate that you had that experience. Yeah. I hope that one day I'm claiming that it's redeemed. But that's what happens to stereotypes. Oh, yeah. And so yeah.
Ian 1:17:28
Well, for anybody out there, you know how to get involved with us, but before we go through all that, shapiel, is there any, is there any kind of, any place that you want to guide the people here to see your stuff or to
Megan West 1:17:39
sure if, I mean, if they want to my websites, westward strategies.com, don't you also look me up, LinkedIn, whatever. Megan West, V, A, G, A, N, there you go. Thanks, Mom. I can't say your name, right,
Ian 1:17:53
but yeah, no. But if you, if you want to reach out to us, we have comment sections on Spotify and YouTube, as you guys already know, at retrospect, pod, the email address is, get offended together@gmail.com
Stoney 1:18:03
still love that, yes, is, get offended together at Gmail dot one of the first,
Ian 1:18:08
one of the first little taglines we came up with when the show first started, is, let's all, let's all sit together in a circle and get offended together. Was the thing. Because we were, we
Stoney 1:18:17
tried that we the joke was we were going to at least defend one person with somebody I
Jason 1:18:21
know I have, yeah,
Ian 1:18:25
I think he's offended. On accident, I know I have offended. But anyways, until next week, thank you so much for istening. Bye, bye,
Jason 1:18:31
goodbye everyone and God bless peace.
Stoney 1:18:35
HR today is navigating a perfect storm. Employees expect flexibility, career growth and mental health support, while organizations struggle with budgets, outdated structures and the inertia of tradition, how we respond to the storm will define the workplaces of tomorrow. Will we sink under the pressure, clinging to old habits and fearing change, or we will steer boldly holding leaders accountable and rewarding real growth and putting people, not just policies, at the center. The choice isn't just about business, it's about whether workplace becomes a place that inspires or a place we merely survive. Thank you so much for hanging out with us today. You're the best peace.